Big "Least" .....It could be

[Tim_T]

I've been saying it all year, but the Big East simply just not have the best teams in college basketball this year. I don't say this out of spite or anything, just observation.

The Big East might be the most evenly balanced, competitive conference, but it's elite teams are not on par with the elite teams from the other power conferences or even with the elite teams from some of the mid majors.

The tournament is proving this out once again like it did last year.

I wanted very badly to pick Pitt to lose because I knew they just weren't that good, but since the committee put them in an easy bracket I had them going farther. As it turns out, they were even worse than I thought.

Notre Dame will be the next one to go down in flames. Syracuse will advance because they are playing one of the poorer teams from their conference.

If this is your arugment, can you or anyone else explain how they manage to beat the "elite" teams from other conferences? Look at their record against other conferences and explain this to me.I want just one person to explain this to me.

As for balance, here is a thought for all the Big East bashers, you see that battle you had on your hands yesterday? That was the team that finished 6th in the conference. Not first, not second, not thrid. That game was a battle. Now imagine playing games like that both home and away, from January through March, with a break here and there for Depaul and South Florida.

Another thing that people like Mills will never understand because thinking about it and admitting it are not things he is capable of. Okay, lets say UK and Florida get to the final four.....does that make the SEC a better conference than the Big east? According to some people it does. Forget the fact that the three other schools got beat and to of them were embarassing to watch, people will look at that and say "Woo Boy, guess them thar boys in that dar SEC weren't so bad. Better than all them city slickers from that big earst"

Woddy has broken it down most objectively thus far, but I believe there are other factors as well that I will get into at a later date because I have a fly rod sitting beside my desk calling my name!

[elnutsmalljaws]

My objective breakdown is the same thing that I have said all year long. Wait until the Conference as a whole starts playing teams from other Conferences in the NCAA Tourney. Some teams are better early in the season and others get better with time. UK for example full of Freshmen are not the same team that an experienced UCONN beat in the Maui Invitational Tourney. That is why the Super Bowl of College Basketball is played at the end of the season, unlike Bass Fishing and Nascar when their biggest event is played at the beginning of the season. 68 teams playing in a Lose and go home system is the best way to find out who are the best teams and best conferences. Conferences playing each other all year long just does not show which conference or in some cases which teams are the best. Butler last year proved how this can be true for they came from nowhere to make it to the championship game and if the half court shot does not bank off the rim could have been the champs instead of Duke. Win 6 games in a row, 7 if it is a play in game, against all different teams and all different conferences proves who is the best. I have never said the Big East was the best conference but also never said the SEC was as bad as people say it is. I have said that the proof is when they start playing other teams in the big dance. The Big East is not head and shoulders better than the rest, the Big Ten is the Big Three plus 7, 8, 9, 10 or however many teams are in there now and the SEC is not as bad as people say it is. The Big East has had several teams lose to lower seeded team, SEC had Vanderbilt dissapoint, The Big 3 are still alive pending Sunday's games. Objectively speaking, if Purdue wins today then the Big 10 or Big 3 plus 8 has done the best for their top teams have won and advanced. SEC would be next for their top 2 teams have won and advanced plus had 1 team dissapoint. The Big East would be behind both of these conferences for the fact that they have had several teams lose to lower seeded teams and their top team has been bounced from the tourney all together. This is just comparing these 3 conferences for the sheer fact that they are the 3 that UK, Louisville and IU happen to be in and these are the 3 schools that are debated the most. If BYU and San Diego State continue to survive and advance to the Elite 8 or Final Four then all 3 of these Conferences will take a back seat to the Mountain West Conference. Let the debate continue, but a LOT is riding on Notre Dame today for if they don't bring their A game to Florida State then the Big East may not have a dog in this fight at all. Florida State is very physical and if Notre Dame can't bang with them and keep them off the boards then it may be a long day for them.

[kyfanatic]

Hmm,Tim must mean those Elite Big East teams like Pittsburgh and Villanova that terrible Tennessee beat at their place,or Mighty Louisville and Notre Dame that Kentucky beat in Louisville plus West Virginia in Tampa.
Big East is so great they have been knocked off by way lower seeds at every spot,I expect 2 more Big East teams to get knocked off today,the fact is Big East had 11 bids and easy draws and did what they always do,flopped.
No conference deserves more than 50% bids,this year proves it,just because you play weak OOC schedules,Are Over-Rated to start with and improve your RPI's by beating each other in an over-populated conference,this does not make you great.
That terrible SEC has a better NCAA win percentage than the Big East and the head to head was only because Big East teams scheduled Auburn and LSU was still 8-6.
2 of 11 bids will make the Sweet 16,no better than any other conference,it's no tougher player home and home in the Big east than any other conference,just ask Morehead State or Butler.

[Tim_T]

Hmm,Tim must mean those Elite Big East teams like Pittsburgh and Villanova that terrible Tennessee beat at their place,or Mighty Louisville and Notre Dame that Kentucky beat in Louisville plus West Virginia in Tampa.
Big East is so great they have been knocked off by way lower seeds at every spot,I expect 2 more Big East teams to get knocked off today,the fact is Big East had 11 bids and easy draws and did what they always do,flopped.
No conference deserves more than 50% bids,this year proves it,just because you play weak OOC schedules,Are Over-Rated to start with and improve your RPI's by beating each other in an over-populated conference,this does not make you great.
That terrible SEC has a better NCAA win percentage than the Big East and the head to head was only because Big East teams scheduled Auburn and LSU was still 8-6.
2 of 11 bids will make the Sweet 16,no better than any other conference,it's no tougher player home and home in the Big east than any other conference,just ask Morehead State or Butler.

the fact is Big East had 11 bids and easy draws and did what they always do,flopped.

False! They do not always flop and I would say it has yet to be proven if they flopped this year.


just because you play weak OOC schedules,Are Over-Rated to start with and improve your RPI's by beating each other in an over-populated conference,this does not make you great.

Once again FALSE. But you can keep believing it if you want. I have posted the facts here in previous threads of that showed the Big East schedules and who they beat where.

[kyfanatic]

Pittsburgh vs Top 68 teams = #11 Texas Win
#1 Seed ? #33 Tennessee Loss
__________________________________________________ ___________
Notre Dame vs Top 68 teams = #47 Georgia Win
#2 Seed #16 Wisconsin Win
#7 Kentucky Loss
#56 Gonzaga Win
__________________________________________________ _______________
Syracuse vs Top 68 teams = #52 Michigan Win
#3 Seed #45 Michigan State Win
#68 Iona Win
__________________________________________________ _______________
Louisville vs Top 68 teams = #34 Butler win #74 Drexel loss
#4 Seed #54 Marshall win
#25 UNLV win
#7 Kentucky loss
__________________________________________________ _____________

Connecticut vs Top 68 teams = #60 Wichita State win
#3 Seed #45 Michigan State win
#7 Kentucky win
#35 Harvard win
#11 Texas win
__________________________________________________ _______________
West Virginia vs Top 68 teams = #53 Oakland win
#5 seed #27 Vanderbilt loss
#42 Cleveland State Win
#54 Marshall loss
__________________________________________________ _______________
St Johns vs Top 68 teams = #46 St Mary's Loss
#6 seed #44 UCLA Loss
#122 St Bonaventure loss
#253 Fordham loss
__________________________________________________ ______________
Cincinnati vs Top 68 teams = #22 Xavier win
#6 seed?
__________________________________________________ ______________
Georgetown vs Top 68 teams = #20 Old Dominion win
#6 seed? #37 Missouri win
#15 Utah State win
#29 Temple win
__________________________________________________ _______________
Villanova vs Top 68 teams = #44 UCLA win
#33 Tennessee Loss
#29 Temple win
__________________________________________________ _____________
Marquette vs Top 68 teams = #4 Duke Loss
#56 Gonzaga Loss
#16 Wisconsin Loss
#27 Vanderbilt Loss
__________________________________________________ ___________-

The only wins over Top Teams in Power Conferences are
Pittsburgh over Texas
Notre Dame over Georgia
Notre Dame over Wisconsin
UConn over Michigan state
UConn over Kentucky
UConn over Texas
Georgetown over Missouri
Syracuse over Michigan
Syracuse over Michigan State
West Virginia over Vanderbilt
Villanova over UCLA

Looks like 11 NCAA Bids to mee

[elnutsmalljaws]

Pittsburgh vs Top 68 teams = #11 Texas Win
#1 Seed ? #33 Tennessee Loss
__________________________________________________ ___________
Notre Dame vs Top 68 teams = #47 Georgia Win
#2 Seed #16 Wisconsin Win
#7 Kentucky Loss
#56 Gonzaga Win
__________________________________________________ _______________
Syracuse vs Top 68 teams = #52 Michigan Win
#3 Seed #45 Michigan State Win
#68 Iona Win
__________________________________________________ _______________
Louisville vs Top 68 teams = #34 Butler win #74 Drexel loss
#4 Seed #54 Marshall win
#25 UNLV win
#7 Kentucky loss
__________________________________________________ _____________

Connecticut vs Top 68 teams = #60 Wichita State win
#3 Seed #45 Michigan State win
#7 Kentucky win
#35 Harvard win
#11 Texas win
__________________________________________________ _______________
West Virginia vs Top 68 teams = #53 Oakland win
#5 seed #27 Vanderbilt loss
#42 Cleveland State Win
#54 Marshall loss
__________________________________________________ _______________
St Johns vs Top 68 teams = #46 St Mary's Loss
#6 seed #44 UCLA Loss
#122 St Bonaventure loss
#253 Fordham loss
__________________________________________________ ______________
Cincinnati vs Top 68 teams = #22 Xavier win
#6 seed?
__________________________________________________ ______________
Georgetown vs Top 68 teams = #20 Old Dominion win
#6 seed? #37 Missouri win
#15 Utah State win
#29 Temple win
__________________________________________________ _______________
Villanova vs Top 68 teams = #44 UCLA win
#33 Tennessee Loss
#29 Temple win
__________________________________________________ _____________
Marquette vs Top 68 teams = #4 Duke Loss
#56 Gonzaga Loss
#16 Wisconsin Loss
#27 Vanderbilt Loss
__________________________________________________ ___________-

The only wins over Top Teams in Power Conferences are
Pittsburgh over Texas
Notre Dame over Georgia
Notre Dame over Wisconsin
UConn over Michigan state
UConn over Kentucky
UConn over Texas
Georgetown over Missouri
Syracuse over Michigan
Syracuse over Michigan State
West Virginia over Vanderbilt
Villanova over UCLA

Looks like 11 NCAA Bids to mee

I don't have a clue how to decifer this but an A+++++++ for effort in this post.

[psprowler]

For all that work I can think of two pretty big ones right of the top of my head you forgot. West Virginia over Purdue and St.JOhns pretty easily over Duke. Seton Hall and Providence both beat SEC West winner Alabama but that doesn't matter a whole buncy.

[Tim_T]

For all that work I can think of two pretty big ones right of the top of my head you forgot. West Virginia over Purdue and St.JOhns pretty easily over Duke. Seton Hall and Providence both beat SEC West winner Alabama but that doesn't matter a whole buncy.

That doesn't count in his eyes! LOL great job kyfanatic, well researched! Alabama? Isn't that the team that SEC fans argued should have been in the tournament.

[elnutsmalljaws]

That doesn't count in his eyes! LOL great job kyfanatic, well researched! Alabama? Isn't that the team that SEC fans argued should have been in the tournament.

Maybe Alabama should have been in the tournament. They could have taken the place of about 5 or 6 Big East teams and did just as good or better than the BE teams showed. With Florida State beating the Irish out of Notre Dame right now, the Big East talk of being the Best Conference in America for the SECOND year in a row has been SQUASHED by outside competition. Mediocre conference that pulled the wool over peoples eyes all year long and made them think by beating each other made them the best conference. Florida State up 13 with 5 minutes to go in the first half, REALLY????? I sure do hope the 11 seed Marquette, that took out Syracuse, and 3 seed UCONN can do something in their next game. You have 2 teams that finished 9th and 11th in the regular season of the Big East still alive (barring a comeback by ND) Both will be underdogs in their games. Imagine that, 2 teams left (barring a comeback by Notre Dame), in the Sweet 16 and both will be underdogs to the teams they are playing. Maybe next year they won't have a tournament and will just hand the national title over to whoever wins the Big East. The Big East fans will spin it around and say that the conference is so good that the 9th and 11th ranked teams were the reason the conference was so good, its depth. The other side could say the top 8 teams got beat and sent packing before the Sweet 16. Since this is the SECOND year in a row that they have flat out been DEMOLISHED and showed their true colors of being an OVERRATED CONFERENCE. 1 year could be a fluke but 2 in a row is a Pattern. If you can't finish the regular season in the top half of your conference standings, then you don't deserve to be in the tournament.

[elnutsmalljaws]

Notre Dame down 23 to Florida State with 12 minutes left in the game is just like the "Claim" of the Big East being the best conference. Both can be summed up by the late Lipton Tea Dallas Cowboy Dandy Don Meredith as he sang on Monday Night Football, "Turn out the lights the party's over"

[know1]

Both Big East teams in the Sweet 16 got there by beating other Big East teams in the tournament. Just sayin...

[know1]

If this is your arugment, can you or anyone else explain how they manage to beat the "elite" teams from other conferences? Look at their record against other conferences and explain this to me.I want just one person to explain this to me.

As for balance, here is a thought for all the Big East bashers, you see that battle you had on your hands yesterday? That was the team that finished 6th in the conference. Not first, not second, not thrid. That game was a battle. Now imagine playing games like that both home and away, from January through March, with a break here and there for Depaul and South Florida.

Another thing that people like Mills will never understand because thinking about it and admitting it are not things he is capable of. Okay, lets say UK and Florida get to the final four.....does that make the SEC a better conference than the Big east? According to some people it does. Forget the fact that the three other schools

got beat and to of them were embarassing to watch, people will look at that and say "Woo Boy, guess them thar boys in that dar SEC weren't so bad. Better than all them city slickers from that big earst"

Woddy has broken it down most objectively thus far, but I believe there are other factors as well that I will get into at a later date because I have a fly rod sitting beside my desk calling my name!

I'm not basing it on the tournament, but rather on watching a bunch of big east games this year.

If you took scary the top 3 or so teams from each conference, the big east would probably be the best.