Debt Ceiling for Dummies

[Hlleonard]

if we do default obama will make sure that Mr. Stewart will get what im sure of is his much deserved retirement and ss check--however every american will suffer because interests rates will skyrocket--that means house loans-car loans-business loans-school loans will be more expansive--therefore once again the middle class folks will suffer which in my opinion is exactly what the extreme right wants so they can try to get rid of obama--the right continues to sacrifice the middle class to protect the rich who they say are the "job creators"-- I am a business owner and exactly what the right considers is a "job creator"--in no way shape or form does what i pay in taxes determine if i create jobs--consumption is what creates jobs--people consuming my product is what stimulates job creation not if I have to pay an extra 2-3% in taxes--the majority of consumption in this country comes from the middle class--the middle class indirectly creates jobs in this country not the top 2%--expecting the middle class alone to balance the budget will kill consumption, business and jobs
sorry for such a long rant

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This post hits the nail squarely on the head... Giving the rich the ability to hoard more of the wealth will only make matters worse... I believe Ronald Reagan was a patriot in that he believed giving the folks who controlled the wealth the ability to retain more of it would result in them investing that wealth but they just grew deeper pockets themselves... I have said before, if you are making your 100 grand and you have folks working for you at minimum wage and you are able to increase your profit but can't seem to find the money to increase their pay, you are part of the problem... Putting more money in the pockets of the folks who aren't going to spend it will only make matters worse.

[DJD]

Wow this thread has veered of course. I completely disagree with you guys that feel making and keeping your money is bad or part of the problem. What kind of thinking is that? So, I should work my butt off, do without some things while investing in my future and my kids future and then have someone say I'm wrong and should be sharing more? To who? The idiot who wanted to party and never grow up? The welfare babies? The illegals? The loser who would rather scam the system than work? The man who didn't attend any professional development courses?
How about the problem is the gubment who spends more than they have? How about the crooked ways of the Unions? How about the crooked legislators and non qualified potus? Since when did a tax paying, law abiding American citizen that plays by the rules become the problem??? Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!??!?

[Hlleonard]

Wow this thread has veered of course. I completely disagree with you guys that feel making and keeping your money is bad or part of the problem. What kind of thinking is that? So, I should work my butt off, do without some things while investing in my future and my kids future and then have someone say I'm wrong and should be sharing more? To who? The idiot who wanted to party and never grow up? The welfare babies? The illegals? The loser who would rather scam the system than work? The man who didn't attend any professional development courses?
How about the problem is the gubment who spends more than they have? How about the crooked ways of the Unions? How about the crooked legislators and non qualified potus? Since when did a tax paying, law abiding American citizen that plays by the rules become the problem??? Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!??!?

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you believe taking money out of the economy drives it, interesting... Recently a business owner said to me " why pay an American 10 dollars an hour when you can get a Mexican to do it for 8 "... Would that be your thinkin also?

[DJD]

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you believe taking money out of the economy drives it, interesting... Recently a business owner said to me " why pay an American 10 dollars an hour when you can get a Mexican to do it for 8 "... Would that be your thinkin also?

No I believe that attacking folks who make money and pay their way and are doing their job is wrong. I believe that the garbage that comes from politicians about the rich not doing their part is bull. The truth that I see everyday is that the politicians don't do their job. They blame big business, wealthy and high income families for the mess they created. I believe you have bought into that junk.
As far as an (illegal i guess u meant) Mexican getting paid less than an American.....you made my point for me. The politicians didn't or won't do their job. They keep sidestepping the real issue which is they have refused to control the borders. They give these folks tax layers money. They let them gain foothold in this country to the point that they can dictate how the potus votes can go and now your trying to twist that around??? I wish they all received amnesty and were put on the payroll and TAXED like you and I.

If my boss didn't pay me well I would go elsewhere because it's my choice not the gubments choice. If I couldn't get a job I would look into starting my own company. I'm responsible not the gubment.

I believe that if corporations had incentives to stay in the USA to manufacture goods they would. I also believe Unions are a big problem in why corporations find labor elsewhere.

[GeoFisher]

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This post hits the nail squarely on the head... Giving the rich the ability to hoard more of the wealth will only make matters worse... I believe Ronald Reagan was a patriot in that he believed giving the folks who controlled the wealth the ability to retain more of it would result in them investing that wealth but they just grew deeper pockets themselves... I have said before, if you are making your 100 grand and you have folks working for you at minimum wage and you are able to increase your profit but can't seem to find the money to increase their pay, you are part of the problem... Putting more money in the pockets of the folks who aren't going to spend it will only make matters worse.

You have a skewed and sick view of things my friend.

Just how do you think the "rich" got "rich". Do you suppose it was because the hoarded money under the bed???? NO.....they got "rich" because the invested in things that helped create consumer goods that people purchased.

Give me a break.. The "rich" would invest in small, medium and large businesses right now if the current administration would get their head out of their butt and make some decisions. Instead, they invest in commodities and precious metals, like Gold, Silver, and Platinum.

Why do you suppose precious metals are through the roof. Because that really is the only hedge against Obamunism.

The "rich" have no idea what capital gains are going to be like in 2 yrs.
The "rich" have no idea what Obama CARE is really going to cost.
The "rich" have no idea what Corporate Taxes will be like in 2 yrs.
The "rich" have no idea what ANYTHING is going to cost in 2 years.

Yea....if I was a businessman, I'd NOT be expanding, building, hiring, developing either.

Obama and Obamunism is destroying our economy, destroying the American Dream, and DESTROYING AMERICA.

Yea.....the rich are hoarding just because they love to NOT MAKE MONEY.

How about you take a simple economics class....

Here is an online one to get you started:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/econ...ynn/1013991438

[Hlleonard]

You have a skewed and sick view of things my friend.

Just how do you think the "rich" got "rich". Do you suppose it was because the hoarded money under the bed???? NO.....they got "rich" because the invested in things that helped create consumer goods that people purchased.

Give me a break.. The "rich" would invest in small, medium and large businesses right now if the current administration would get their head out of their butt and make some decisions. Instead, they invest in commodities and precious metals, like Gold, Silver, and Platinum.

Why do you suppose precious metals are through the roof. Because that really is the only hedge against Obamunism.

The "rich" have no idea what capital gains are going to be like in 2 yrs.
The "rich" have no idea what Obama CARE is really going to cost.
The "rich" have no idea what Corporate Taxes will be like in 2 yrs.
The "rich" have no idea what ANYTHING is going to cost in 2 years.

Yea....if I was a businessman, I'd NOT be expanding, building, hiring, developing either.

Obama and Obamunism is destroying our economy, destroying the American Dream, and DESTROYING AMERICA.

Yea.....the rich are hoarding just because they love to NOT MAKE MONEY.

How about you take a simple economics class....

Here is an online one to get you started:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/econ...ynn/1013991438

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Mr Fisher, you and I will seldom find a point to agree on even though I have seen a small glimmer of a heart in one of your earlier post... Until more money finds its way into the hands of the folks who will spend it, our economy will continue to suffer... A lot of you guys whine about losers being on government assistance but you don't believe they should be paid a wage that allows them to be self sufficient.

[vetbass]

Mr. Geo im a business owner and i got rich building and investing in my business--however tax breaks did not make me rich--my business grew under the clinton years when the middle class were takin care off--the vast majority of our country is average hard workin middle class folks--80% of consumption in small business comes from those middle class folks--if we keep attacking middle class programs such as social security/medicaid/unions then these folks wont be able to support small business and then no one gets rich--would you rather have to pay an extra few thousand a year in taxes or have 80% of your business clientele not be able to afford to shop in your business because their salary dropped and their benifits were takin away by the repubs--the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win

[DJD]

the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win

The fact that the mortgage crash went on had alot to do with this recession. A potus doesn't create jobs anyway. His ideas might get into Congress but thats about it. Also the Dems controlled Congress in 2007 until recently so that plays into job creation as well. Blaming Bush for losing 7 million jobs? Like always I would like to see that data....just asking.

BTW...the GOP controlled Congress for many years under Clinton. The idea that the GOP will crush the country is false. I like the idea that one party controls congress while another party has the potus. I used to blame one party without any regard for the responsibility of the other party and thats plain wrong. It's selfish crooked politicians.

Both parties are to blame for where we are. No one can prove any different.

[GeoFisher]

Mr. Geo im a business owner and i got rich building and investing in my business--however tax breaks did not make me rich--my business grew under the clinton years when the middle class were takin care off--the vast majority of our country is average hard workin middle class folks--80% of consumption in small business comes from those middle class folks--if we keep attacking middle class programs such as social security/medicaid/unions then these folks wont be able to support small business and then no one gets rich--would you rather have to pay an extra few thousand a year in taxes or have 80% of your business clientele not be able to afford to shop in your business because their salary dropped and their benifits were takin away by the repubs--the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win

How many of those "middle" class folks can AFFORD anything made by "middle class folks" NOT MANY. It is great that the middle class has moved economically, BUT they moved using collective bargaining to price themselves out of the market. NO ONE should make 70k a year pushing a broom......I've seen and experienced that first hand.

7 Million JOBS??

Right....

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutput...me=LN_cpsbref3

Liberals LOVE to bash Reagan here.......but you know what, during his years the United States experienced the greatest non wartime economic growth in the history of our country.

The economy that he inherited was horrible. We were coming off an oil embargo, Interest rates were 22% to purchase a house.......YOU GUYS REMEMBER THAT.......

In 18 months, REAGAN and his policies turned the country around and we started on the greatest GDP growth in history.......

YOU CANNOT DENY THAT.

And Obama.......well he's leading us the the worst GDP growth in history.....

Later,

Geo

[coombro]

Mr. Geo im a business owner and i got rich building and investing in my business--however tax breaks did not make me rich--my business grew under the clinton years when the middle class were takin care off--the vast majority of our country is average hard workin middle class folks--80% of consumption in small business comes from those middle class folks--if we keep attacking middle class programs such as social security/medicaid/unions then these folks wont be able to support small business and then no one gets rich--would you rather have to pay an extra few thousand a year in taxes or have 80% of your business clientele not be able to afford to shop in your business because their salary dropped and their benifits were takin away by the repubs--the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win

One word.. Nafta.