A novel idea

[Tom523]

This was your quote "Right now with this administration we are heading this country so far left that democracy is doomed to fail" and I pointed out many examples of Bush's policies that Obama has kept in place for whatever reason and you still think we are headed that way.


"Eye wash", okay I guess deporting record numbers of illegals is eye wash and every recent POTUS was doing all they could to stop illegals from getting in and mooching off the system.

And where did you hear about this amnesty plan?

Also again with the stricter gun laws that I've head about before he was even elected.

Already asked this once but how is invading Lybia a left idea?

Tell me that the budget crisis is all his fault.

I'm not saying that previous administrations don't bear some responsibility but this one is throwing gas on the fire with its policies.nThe "Dream Act" is one form of amnesty that this administration is pushing and Obama recently at a meeting with la Raza said that he will push for immigration reform in the for of an amnesty. The stricter gun laws have already started in the border states. Having forces in Libya is just another tool to weaken our economy. he wants to destroy this government and form a socialist one. Recent free healthcare for women will cause health insurance to skyrocket.

[Chubminnow]

He wants to destroy this government and form a socialist one.

I'll tell ya....if destroying this country isn't on his personal secret agenda, then he sure has a funny way of showing us different.

Prove us wrong Nobama...Please prove us wrong...

[DJD]

Tell me that the budget crisis is all his fault.

I wish he, many of his adminstration and select Liberal citizens would actually put some of the blame on this Potus. I don't remember hearing them take any?? I don't remember the once Dem Controlled Congress taking any blame either.
Admitting they were wrong isn't gonna fix it but it would sure go a long way in learning from their mistakes...instead they blame eachother.

[Tom523]

I am not intelligent so don't put me in that category

Elnut! I didn't say you were intelligent. I said the debate was!

[pontooner]

I'm not saying that previous administrations don't bear some responsibility but this one is throwing gas on the fire with its policies.nThe "Dream Act" is one form of amnesty that this administration is pushing and Obama recently at a meeting with la Raza said that he will push for immigration reform in the for of an amnesty. The stricter gun laws have already started in the border states. Having forces in Libya is just another tool to weaken our economy. he wants to destroy this government and form a socialist one. Recent free healthcare for women will cause health insurance to skyrocket.

In a earlier post you mentioned that Obama had a amnesty plan to allow 13 million illegals to vote, is this part of what you think is in the Dream Act or is the 13 million figure from some other amnesty plan?


Just curious because the Dream Act would only allow amnesty for illegals between certain ages and would be tied to them meeting educational or military requirments and that would not even come close to giving amnesty to 13 million illegals if thats what your talking about. From what I've read the Dream Act would give amnesty to as many as 1.1 million illegals only. Also I think there is/was a rule in the bill that it does not grant legal immigrant status to anyone for at least two 2 years.



So you think Obama started the war in Lybia to futher weaken the economy so he can "destroy this government and form a socialist one"? Really????? Sorry but I'm filling this one away with the Truthers and Birthers theories.

[pontooner]

I wish he, many of his adminstration and select Liberal citizens would actually put some of the blame on this Potus. I don't remember hearing them take any?? I don't remember the once Dem Controlled Congress taking any blame either.
Admitting they were wrong isn't gonna fix it but it would sure go a long way in learning from their mistakes...instead they blame eachother.

Here I'll do it, Obama has plenty to do with the mess were in. He has kept way to many of Bush's polices going, wars.............. Seriously that's how I feel but it does fall squarely on his shoulders.


Let me know when you find a politican that will admit he made a mistake without there being video, a photo, audio recording ...... of the truth to pin them down and then they will still try to spin it. They think admitting to a mistake shows weakness.

[LJP]

Pontooner, Just keep on drinking that koolaide.

[pontooner]

Pontooner, Just keep on drinking that koolaide.

Let's see, why don't you try adding something worthwhile to the debate then we can go from there.

[DJD]

Here I'll do it, Obama has plenty to do with the mess were in. He has kept way to many of Bush's polices going, wars.............. Seriously that's how I feel but it does fall squarely on his shoulders.


Let me know when you find a politican that will admit he made a mistake without there being video, a photo, audio recording ...... of the truth to pin them down and then they will still try to spin it. They think admitting to a mistake shows weakness.

I can't remember anyone doing that but it sure would be nice. The only time I have seen it is if they get caught cheating on their spouse and only then if they get backed into a corner with video or audio.
Of course some deny it even when caught. I guess you have to have a certain personality to be a politician.

[coombro]

I hear ya man...here is another example of what makes me shake my head in disgust...we are bidding a school job in a few weeks. Guess what the prevailing wage is for an electrician in that county? $51.83! Really, how is this reality? Imagine how that job is gonna go as it tries to close out and get ready to open. I can bet some guys will milk that wage!!!

So because of the Unions getting this prevailing wage into law take a look at this worker who was maybe making $45-55k a year with his experience and license and he gets on a job for a year or more making $107, 806 a year. Anyone wonder why the state has a hard time finding money for other things? This is just for electricians.

On this job....(figures are straight out of the bid documents) A laborer makes $20.62 an hour, Ironworker $44.31, Cement Masons $34.31 and on and on. Years ago the schools were built, people made money and all was well except for the spoiled Unions. They couldn't bid these jobs since they paid so much to the men so they scratched the back of politicians and got this law passed to help them compete. Well it hasn't worked very well since they still get almost nothing in the public educational state funded projects. Now, what happens is the private sector is charging the state more for the projects and they are getting tossed together... because you can lose your butt on these jobs if they run over on labor.

I visit these jobs and trust me there is alot of "oh well i'm getting my "X" amount of money I don't care how long it takes" attitude going on. Human nature is what it is.

Amen DJD and the quality of work is no better be it a union man or not! I being an electrician love the wages and as a foreman expect top quality work out of knowledgeable electricians. That is getting hard to find. Even at those wages. State isn't getting what it's suppose to with the wages. As you said cost are cut somewhere and it's in the overall quality of the job.

[Tom523]

In a earlier post you mentioned that Obama had a amnesty plan to allow 13 million illegals to vote, is this part of what you think is in the Dream Act or is the 13 million figure from some other amnesty plan?


Just curious because the Dream Act would only allow amnesty for illegals between certain ages and would be tied to them meeting educational or military requirments and that would not even come close to giving amnesty to 13 million illegals if thats what your talking about. From what I've read the Dream Act would give amnesty to as many as 1.1 million illegals only. Also I think there is/was a rule in the bill that it does not grant legal immigrant status to anyone for at least two 2 years.



So you think Obama started the war in Lybia to futher weaken the economy so he can "destroy this government and form a socialist one"? Really????? Sorry but I'm filling this one away with the Truthers and Birthers theories.

I never mentioned the number 13 million for one. Two , the legal hard working taxpayer would foot the bill for those illegals to attend college. Three, the law says that they must attend college not graduate. Four Obama didn't start the war in Libya, the rebels did and Obama just thought we would join in and waste a few billion dollars that we can't afford. Read the newspapers, the economy is failing while your precious Obama is charging 38,500 dollars a plate to eat birthday cake and millions of people are looking for work.
"Obama has made it clear: the only job he cares about is his own. Unemployment stands at 9.2%. The highest sustained unemployment that our country has seen since the Carter Administration. The growing unemployment numbers are a direct result of Obama's failed leadership and botched policies."(Michele Bachman)

[pontooner]

I never mentioned the number 13 million for one. Two , the legal hard working taxpayer would foot the bill for those illegals to attend college. Three, the law says that they must attend college not graduate. Four Obama didn't start the war in Libya, the rebels did and Obama just thought we would join in and waste a few billion dollars that we can't afford. Read the newspapers, the economy is failing while your precious Obama is charging 38,500 dollars a plate to eat birthday cake and millions of people are looking for work.
"Obama has made it clear: the only job he cares about is his own. Unemployment stands at 9.2%. The highest sustained unemployment that our country has seen since the Carter Administration. The growing unemployment numbers are a direct result of Obama's failed leadership and botched policies."(Michele Bachman)

Direct quote from you in post #46 in this thread "He hopes to have an amnesty plan to allow 13 million illegal immigrants to vote in the next election. If he succeeds then he's a shoe in."

Now whether you were misinformed or just throwing out some big number as red meat for the board pubs to eat up I have no idea but that is why I asked if the 13 million illegals that you claimed could get to vote was a result from the Dream Act or some other amnesty plan I hadn't heard about.


"precious Obama" with this you would think I was actually defending his policies to the bitter end in this thread but if you go back and read through it I haven't.


Oh no Obama had a birthday and a birthday party, seriously this is just more red meat to make it sound like he really just dosen't care about the people who are out of work.


I don't know exactaly what time frame Michele Bachman is counting from for her sustained comment but if you look at unemployment rates from Apr. 1982 thru Sept. 1983 you won't find a rate lower than 9.2% and 10 out of 18 months over 10% so I guess she just decide to skip that time frame since Reagan was POTUS but of course that was all Carters fault, never mind I forgot that a previous administration can't be blamed for problems.