A question of values.......

[RICHYD4U]

Everything you need to know is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

Not sure where the "lies" part fits into all that...who actually knows? Guess only the big guy himself.

What I find really interesting about Joseph Smith's story, is that he was persecuted his entire life, and eventually killed for believing in a very, very passive religion...one that focuses on the very conept of Christianity. I thought this was supposed to be the United States...freedom of religion...what was up with that? And the people that did this to him and his followers, were from various "christian" faiths...how did they justify that I wonder. Very interesting...

Also interesting...two major republican presidential candidates are Mormon...Romney & Huntsman. Would you vote for them regardless if it came down to it? Just curious...I find the Mormon religion fascinating.

-Rich

[Hlleonard]

That's because you've only read the King James Version, where the Hebrew word "ratsach" was translated as "kill." In other versions, including the New King James Version, it is translated as "murder," which represents the true meaning of the Hebrew text. In that version, the sixth commandment is, "Thou Shalt Not Murder."

--
you are correct, I have never read that... Which version of the king James bible is that written?... There are several versions of the same bible I believe... Most folks including christians will quote that as "Thou shall not kill".

[Chubminnow]

Also interesting...two major republican presidential candidates are Mormon...Romney & Huntsman. Would you vote for them regardless if it came down to it? Just curious...I find the Mormon religion fascinating.

Good question....I don't know squat about Mormon's or their religeon either one. I'd be curious to read Geo's thoughts on this, most especially since he comes from a Mormon up bringing. How about it Geo?

[HURRICANEBOB]

Really? I don't know a single person who keeps a gun to kill somebody. Who are these people and where do they live?

Detroit
Harlem
And the West End of Louisville

[Chubminnow]

the West End of Louisville

Hurricane Bob speaks the truth!

[GeoFisher]

Not sure where the "lies" part fits into all that...who actually knows? Guess only the big guy himself.

What I find really interesting about Joseph Smith's story, is that he was persecuted his entire life, and eventually killed for believing in a very, very passive religion...one that focuses on the very conept of Christianity. I thought this was supposed to be the United States...freedom of religion...what was up with that? And the people that did this to him and his followers, were from various "christian" faiths...how did they justify that I wonder. Very interesting...

Also interesting...two major republican presidential candidates are Mormon...Romney & Huntsman. Would you vote for them regardless if it came down to it? Just curious...I find the Mormon religion fascinating.

-Rich

Mormons are some of the BEST people I know.....Smith, in my mind was not a prophet..that is the basis of the lies. Golden Tablets, another lie....but that is neither here nor there.

It does NOT matter if I believe or not. Folks believe that and WHO am I to judge them. I've made decisions based on what I think, and had some influence that may have been unintended.....I still would have changed my views on Mormonism.

I would vote for Romney........Not for Huntsman.....Politically Romney is closer to what I'd choose for a president..but he's not the BEST choice of the bunch.

Huntsman is what many here would call a moderate republican, and I have NO STOMACH for them.......Romney is too, but not nearly to the level of Huntsman.

And for the record......I had to hold my nose when I pulled the lever for McCain......although McCain gets more of a by on quite a lot of bs because of his unwavering LOVE for his country and his years in a VC torture camp.

Later,

Geo

[HURRICANEBOB]

I think you and learn and live a moral and ethical life without a lot of religion. Military service establishes a tough set of standards to live by. Drill seargeants are nt chaplains, but they still get their values and ethics engrained in to those they train.

[Chubminnow]

And for the record......I had to hold my nose when I pulled the lever for McCain......although McCain gets more of a by on quite a lot of bs because of his unwavering LOVE for his country and his years in a VC torture camp.

His love for our country, it's citizens and his years in the VC torture camp were my reasons for voting for him...plus the fact that I knew for certain that if Nobama got elected we would head down hill...and sure enough, look where we're at now....MUCH farther down hill than we were prior to Nobama.

[bassin_bug]

I was not raised in the church and only remember going on Easter Sunday or to some Christmas celebration. I did attend church back some 20 years ago after I got out of college and was very active in church as far as helping keep the grounds mowed, flower beds looking nice, setting up and taking down chairs and such. After a couple of years in the church my wife and I seperated and got a divorce. To make a long story short, I did not like the way the Deacons of the church treated me after I got a divorce even though 3 of them had went thru divorces themselves. I did not attend church again until a couple of years ago, very bitter towards the church and felt if there was a God then why did he allow these Deacons to treat me the way they did. I started attending church again because of all my health problems and thought that must be the reason that I kept getting sick and having surgery. I even got to the point that I was baptized and was asked to stand up in front of the church and tell my story. My family all showed up and a full congregation sat there as I spilled my guts to all the bad and good that has happened to me. Many teary eyes and such and a lot of pats on the back afterwords. That lasted all of about 2 weeks before I was back in the hospital with emergency surgery. Then another surgery, then another staff infection and so forth. I got so bitter that I left the church and have not been to a service in over a year. I am to the point that I am not sure if there is a God. If there is a God then why do bad things happen to good people, why do good people like my wife's Stepdad get taken away due to Cancer a week after he retires from work 13 years ago but a piece of garbage like her real father (who only 2 people on EARTH care if he is still alive) is still kicking and being the gripy piece of crap that he is. I have a ton of questions and maybe I am more bitter than most maybe I have a reason to be more bitter than most or maybe I don't. ...... but I just am so bitter at how my health has turned my life upside down that if there is/was a God then WHY?.......I would think Heaven is a place that would accept me.

With all due respect, Ellnut, I disagree with you totally for blaming every bad thing that has happened to you, and others, on God. I'm going to say what a lot of people on this board could possibly have been thinking but would not say it, lest they offend you. If I recall, you were grossly obese when you started having surgery. God didn't open your mouth and shove the food in that made you fat; YOU made that choice. You made the decision to have the surgery, God didn't make you do it. He didn't give you staph infection, your body did or you got it from an unsterile operating room/instruments, hands, etc. It goes without saying that you probably had a lot of excess skin when you lost the weight and have had to have it removed or are planning to. Before you automatically assume the staph just attacks you, find out the SOURCE of it. My mom had it after surgery because her home health nurse did not follow doctor's orders and elected to cleanse the wound her way instead of using what was prescribed. God didn't give her staph infection, the nurse caused it. My 25-year old sister died of cancer and left TWO babies still on the bottle and in diapers. God didn't give her cancer, her body did. On May 22, I had a serious vehicle accident in which the truck rolled 5 times and I was trapped for around 45 minutes, hanging upside down by a seat belt, in a truck that was upside down. God didn't cause the accident and neither did I, so who should I blame for all these injuries, including both broken feet? The accident reconstructionist, insurance adjuster, and MS State Trooper said they think the tandem brakes locked up on a U-Haul trailer that I was pulling causing it to jackknife, when I hit a dip in the road. My truck rolled down a steep embankment and into a ravine that took the wreckers almost 3 hours to pull it out. I will NEVER blame God and am not ashamed to tell you that, while the truck was rolling, I was screaming to the top of my lungs, "Jesus, help me." HE DID! and I am alive to tell it. The State Trooper called me and said he didn't see how I could still be alive. One week later, a lady had an accident at the same place and was killed.

It seems to me that, when things are going good and you are doing what you want to do, you believe in God. When you hit a rough patch and don't like how things are going, you don't believe there is a God. You need to make up your mind, ONCE AND FOR ALL, and make a choice whom you will believe in. If God, then serve him in the good times and the bad times. If yourself, then worship yourself, serve yourself and heal yourself, but stop acting like the the people you call "hypocrites" that you have just criticized.

Heaven will not accept you, or anyone else, based on your good works or your sickness. It is only through the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ that was shed when he died on The Cross.

[Tim_T]

Detroit
Harlem
And the West End of Louisville

I don't know anyone in Harlem or Detroit, but the people I know in the west end are either unarmed or have a CCDW. I have spent a lot of time in the west end and think most of its bad reputation is based on fear. Sure there are a couple of isolated areas you don't want to get lost in, but it is not as bad as people try and make it sound.

[Chubminnow]

Sure there are a couple of isolated areas you don't want to get lost in, but it is not as bad as people try and make it sound.

Bob's probably like me in that he paints the west end with a four inch brush, in other words he doesn't know enough about it and which pockets of town you don't want to stop and ask for directions, niether do I....Newburg area is another area that has it's share of shootings that makes the news.

All told...I'm a caucasion male, I drive a pickup truck and there isn't anything in the west end that I need or want either one.

[elnutsmalljaws]

Sorry Bug but we will agree to disagree. No I never blamed God for what happened to me. What I said was if there was a God then why do things happen the way they do? For me to blame God then that would mean I 110% believe there is a God in the first place. Yes I was very obese when I had a weight loss surgery. No I was not always that way and it had absolutely nothing to do with food because it only took 2 years to gain 160 lbs and even though I was constantly on a strict diet as far down as 1000 calories a day my body kept gaining weight. So I wad not shoving food in my mouth to get that big but a thyroid condition that they could not figure out that caused my last 2 years prior to my weight loss surgery issues. No I am not a fair weather Christian. Even when I did go to church for a year, was baptized and such I had 3 surgeries during this time. It was not like all was well so I went to church then it went bad so I quit going to church. Like I said I thought "maybe" the fact that I was not going to church and believing was the issue but found out it did not matter for my health was still the same. If that was the case I could say I have not been in the hospital for 7 months now and hopefully I will make it to November which would make it 9 months which is the longest I have been out of the hospital in 6 years. So I guess not going to church is the answer. All I am saying is I am not 110% and NOBODY is 110% sure there is a God. I respect your opinion and your right to believe what you want and certainly deserve the same in return. Maybe God had kept me around maybe I am a stubborn SOB that refuses to die maybe some doctors are better than others maybe I check out tonight or maybe I live to be 156 years old ( hope not). But nobody knows