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Senior Member
I agree with Al Mohler about this issue.
In summary, Mohler agrees with court findings that "In God We Trust" represents "civil religion". That is, something that has absolutely no theological impact whatsoever, and it's dangerous to confuse civil religion with faith in Christ.
Senior Member
Atheists will NOT win on this issue....at least I hope not.Originally Posted by RoadToad
God is plastered all over our founding DOCUMENTS. Read a few.
Had our founding fathers ever thought that our beloved gubment would try to remove God from our lives, well they might have taken some other issues.
Separation of Church and State or whatever you WANT to call it was all about not creating a CHURCH of the United States.....The Church of England and government of England were one in the same. Our founders didn't want that, but they certainly also DIDN'T want gubment banning the 10 commandments, or redacting GOD from documents, or GOD FORBID....gay marriage.
GIVE me a break.
Later,
Geo
Senior Member
I couldn't care less if it is on there or not, the whole thing is so ridiculous it should be in a bad movie, not something our government is debating while the country goes to hell in a handbasket. Seriously, has anybody ever thought about doing something morally or legally wrong, suddenly looked at a nickle and read those words and then had a change of heart? The whole thing would be laughable, except there is not a thing funny about it!
Senior Member
Please show me where God is "plastered all over our founding DOCUMENTS." Because despite your condescending suggestion that I "read a few," i already have. Apparently more than you, because I can tell you that God is NOT "plastered all over" any of our founding documents. The references to God are actually rather sparse. And the government (or "gubment," as you like to call it) has never banned the 10 Commandments, nor has anybody asked them to.
And much as you would like to believe otherwise, it's not just atheists arguing for separation of church & state. There are quite a few religious leaders with the wisdom to see how mixing religion and government is bad for both.
Senior Member
"Do you swear to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth........So help you GOD."
I guess the very FOUNDATION of our judicial system means nothing.
Senior Member
Here is some reading for you:
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html
AND if banning the 10 Commandments has not been going on, then, what do you call this?
http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...CLES/110719637
Later,
Geo
I trust him, so much I don't micromanage him by trying to talk to him every Sunday. I figure if he needs my input, he'll let me know.
Senior Member
It appeared on coins in the late 1800's, but it was not our motto until the 50's. It became our motto around the time we added the line "under god" to the pledge. Back when we thought our greatest weapon against the spread of communism was christianity.
Our founding fathers purposefully stayed away from religion in our original documents. The only mention of religion in the original constitution was: "[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The bill of rights was added several years later in response to other states creating their own. But the Bill of rights further suggest that the government can not encourage or support any one religion.
About the 10 commandments - why are people so insistent that they are posted in public places? I just don't get it. Why would they belong in front of a courthouse - that by law is not permitted to show support of any one religion over another.
It just seems that the very people that are so determined that these be posted every where, also have them posted throughout their home and church. I think it is great you are instilling these values in your house for your children and family. But do you think their lack of them being posted everywhere outside of your house is going to de-moralize your family?
Senior Member
Col,
Isn't the fact that in most cases these items were already placed everywhere with no impact on other religions or groups and now all of a sudden have to be removed more of the problem or the real question?
I mean I wonder what has happened that made this such an important issue for the ACLU and other groups? Anyone know?
I have not followed this as closely as others but heard about it through the years and of course more recently.....I still wonder why this is an issue?
There seems to be enough proof or evidence that God has been in the American way of life for many more years than other religions. Some embraced it some don't but it's been there none the less. Don't remember saying my pledge of allegiance in school with one nation under Allah or budha? Ok not exactly what the thread is about but it's in the same discussion.
Just seems like as a country we have sooooo much more for our elected leaders to worry about than something like this.
Senior Member
Geo,
Sometimes it really irks me how you throw inaccurate statements out there, with nothing to back them up, and let me do your fact-checking for you, but what the hell, I guess we both learn something from it.
"You make it sound like this was magically approved in 1956, but In God we Trust has been our motto since the early 1800's."
NOT true. The phrase wasn't even conceived until Abraham Lincoln's administration, and didn't appear on any currency until 1864.
http://www.treasury.gov/about/educat...-we-trust.aspx
"The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin..."
"...The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval. The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.
A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate..."
It has NOT been the US motto for 200 years. It has been appearing on SOME of our currency, not all, since 1864, not quite 150 years yet, and it has not yet been our national motto for 50 years. Those are FACTS.
"Here is some reading for you:
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html"
Interesting reading. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove though?
"AND if banning the 10 Commandments has not been going on, then, what do you call this?
http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...CLES/110719637"
I call that upholding the First Amendment. Those folks are free to display the 10 Commandments on any private property they wish, so there is no "ban" on them. They simply have to abide by the Constitution when they do so.
One last question. Just what is it we should all be so darned SCARED about?
Super Moderator
Looks like Roadtoad pretty much supplied my response to Geo. I'll just add that in 2006 congress again reaffirmed that in god we trust is the US motto (50th anniversery of the law originally being passed). My comment had nothing to do with what the motto is. Simply, does congress really need to waste time reaffirming a law that is already on the books and that was already reaffirmed 5 years ago? Seriously, the country is headed down the crapper and rather than spend time/money on actually doing something that will fix any of the many problems we have, congress decides to waste time/money on something that is merely symbolic and a campaine ploy.
Andrew
I love this place!
I learn more from it everyday, some serious history here!
Peter, Do I have to pay tuition to stay a member
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