Occupy Protestors Gone

[GeoFisher]

DJD

Let me be one of those "extreme left wingers" as you call them and address the 40-48% of folks who "pay nothing or very little"

Very true that these folks do not pay federal income taxes--these folks either use legal deductions (the same way you or I or anybody else on this board does) or they simply dont make enough money to qualify to pay fed income tax--a decient percentage of these folks use the earned income tax credit which allows them to not pay income tax--the earned income credit was started by Gerald Ford if i remember right and then expanded upon by Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush to help children, working poor and the elderly who make up most of the 48%

These people who dont pay income taxes will still pay around 40% of their total income in taxes give or take a few points--these folks dont pay fed income tax but they end up paying a higher percentage of there income in state, local and other taxes than someone making several hundred thousand or millions a year--if you compare total taxes paid yearly for someone making $20000 a year and someone making $500000 a year they will both pay around 40% give or take a few points

Not all of us left wingers like koolaid either--Im a tea drinker myself

Explain to me how they end up paying anywhere NEAR 40% of their income in taxes?? Must be some new kind of math.

later,

Geo

[vetbass]

Explain to me how they end up paying anywhere NEAR 40% of their income in taxes?? Must be some new kind of math.

later,

Geo

A 2009 study by the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy concluded that state and local taxes took a higher percentage of income from the poor and middle class than from the wealthy--researchers found those in the top 1% paid around 5% in state and local taxes while those in the bottom 20% paid almost 11%--double what richest paid

the same study also found that the average state excise tax accounted for 7% for the poorest folk--4.7% for middle class--0.9% for the wealthy

according to a 2007 CBO report the bottom 80% paid 9% of their income on social security tax while the top 1% only paid 1.6% of their income on social security tax

those folks earning $500000 or greater have seen their overall effective tax rate drop by almost 50% since 1980 while the rate for those making $20000 or less has barely budged

corporate taxes as a percentage of federal revenue dropped from 27.3% in 1955 to 8.9% in 2010--during that same time period individual income/payrolls as a percentage of federal revenue skyrocketed from 58% to 81.5% thus the overall tax burden shifted from the wealthy and corporations to middle class and poor folk

[GeoFisher]

A 2009 study by the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy concluded that state and local taxes took a higher percentage of income from the poor and middle class than from the wealthy--researchers found those in the top 1% paid around 5% in state and local taxes while those in the bottom 20% paid almost 11%--double what richest paid

the same study also found that the average state excise tax accounted for 7% for the poorest folk--4.7% for middle class--0.9% for the wealthy

according to a 2007 CBO report the bottom 80% paid 9% of their income on social security tax while the top 1% only paid 1.6% of their income on social security tax

those folks earning $500000 or greater have seen their overall effective tax rate drop by almost 50% since 1980 while the rate for those making $20000 or less has barely budged

corporate taxes as a percentage of federal revenue dropped from 27.3% in 1955 to 8.9% in 2010--during that same time period individual income/payrolls as a percentage of federal revenue skyrocketed from 58% to 81.5% thus the overall tax burden shifted from the wealthy and corporations to middle class and poor folk

Doubled to 11%.......that is 29% LESS than you stated..............I still am IMPRESSED with your math skills.

Later,

Geo

[vetbass]

Doubled to 11%.......that is 29% LESS than you stated..............I still am IMPRESSED with your math skills.

Later,

Geo

ok im gonna explain this one more time--please pay careful attention

the top 1% paid around 5% in STATE and LOCAL TAXES--the bottom 20% paid around 11%

the folks who dont pay "any taxes" according to the right pay an OVERALL EFFECTIVE TAX RATE of 40% give or take a few points

im pretty sure there is a big difference between OVERALL EFFECTIVE TAX RATE and just STATE AND LOCAL TAXES

poor folk pay same percentage of their income to uncle sam as the rich folk do

basically were all paying a flat tax of 40%

[vetbass]

GEO

forgot to ask in my previous post--seems you have some experience with float n fly on dale--would like to learn how---do you know a good guide who teaches float n fly

Thanks for any suggestions

Democrat or Republican guide it doesnt matter

[GeoFisher]

GEO

forgot to ask in my previous post--seems you have some experience with float n fly on dale--would like to learn how---do you know a good guide who teaches float n fly

Thanks for any suggestions

Democrat or Republican guide it doesnt matter

There are a few good ones down at dale............

Keith Palmiero
Greg Brisendine


There is a big list here:

http://www.smalljaw.com/forum/default.asp

Later,

Geo

[DJD]

Well I cannot argue those stats. I don't believe them since stats can be found to back any point. I have heard different....your basically saying that everyone pays taxes. After all refunds, credits or whatever else can be claimed they still pay 40%? does this apply to people getting money from the gubment? People getting "x" amount of money for having babies, food stamps or any program that gives them money. I'm just asking to get some info(my judgment on if anyone deserves help isn't at play here) how many millions of tax payer money that is given to illegals is taxed? I believe Bobby mentioned illegals get assistance.

[vetbass]

Well I cannot argue those stats. I don't believe them since stats can be found to back any point. I have heard different....your basically saying that everyone pays taxes. After all refunds, credits or whatever else can be claimed they still pay 40%? does this apply to people getting money from the gubment? People getting "x" amount of money for having babies, food stamps or any program that gives them money. I'm just asking to get some info(my judgment on if anyone deserves help isn't at play here) how many millions of tax payer money that is given to illegals is taxed? I believe Bobby mentioned illegals get assistance.

the fact is that the right has repeatedly tried to fool the american people with this lie and have been very effective at this--if you choose to deny the truth than that is your right

yes that 40% applies to everybody even those on gov assistance--to my knowledge those who recieve something like welfare checks do not pay direct tax on that money because its considered income and that income does not amount to enough to qualify to be taxable--however these folks are still on the hook for all the other various taxes

im sure there are illegals who skirt the system and pay nothing just like there are legal citizens who find ways to steal from the system--however i have seen folks on the right villify everone on gov assistance way to often--the vast majority of folks on gov assist are folks with legit reasons for being in that situation and that assistance still leaves most of these folks living in squaller--you can take any large program or large group of people ever created in the history of the world and you will find some kind of cheating and fraud involved--thats just part of it

the right the left or anyone in this country should be thankful that gov assist exists because without it this country would implode on itself in short order

[waterdog101]

the fact is that the right has repeatedly tried to fool the american people with this lie and have been very effective at this--if you choose to deny the truth than that is your right

yes that 40% applies to everybody even those on gov assistance--to my knowledge those who recieve something like welfare checks do not pay direct tax on that money because its considered income and that income does not amount to enough to qualify to be taxable--however these folks are still on the hook for all the other various taxes

im sure there are illegals who skirt the system and pay nothing just like there are legal citizens who find ways to steal from the system--however i have seen folks on the right villify everone on gov assistance way to often--the vast majority of folks on gov assist are folks with legit reasons for being in that situation and that assistance still leaves most of these folks living in squaller--you can take any large program or large group of people ever created in the history of the world and you will find some kind of cheating and fraud involved--thats just part of it

the right the left or anyone in this country should be thankful that gov assist exists because without it this country would implode on itself in short order

well said, and thanks.

[GeoFisher]

the fact is that the right has repeatedly tried to fool the american people with this lie and have been very effective at this--if you choose to deny the truth than that is your right

yes that 40% applies to everybody even those on gov assistance--to my knowledge those who recieve something like welfare checks do not pay direct tax on that money because its considered income and that income does not amount to enough to qualify to be taxable--however these folks are still on the hook for all the other various taxes

im sure there are illegals who skirt the system and pay nothing just like there are legal citizens who find ways to steal from the system--however i have seen folks on the right villify everone on gov assistance way to often--the vast majority of folks on gov assist are folks with legit reasons for being in that situation and that assistance still leaves most of these folks living in squaller--you can take any large program or large group of people ever created in the history of the world and you will find some kind of cheating and fraud involved--thats just part of it

the right the left or anyone in this country should be thankful that gov assist exists because without it this country would implode on itself in short order

I still don't get it.............PROVIDE a link, any link.......

AND I can GUARANTEE you that my effective tax rate is no where near 40%. EVEN with the double taxation on various things. I still don't get it.

How about you BREAK IT DOWN.

yes that 40% applies to everybody even those on gov assistance--to my knowledge those who recieve something like welfare checks do not pay direct tax on that money because its considered income and that income does not amount to enough to qualify to be taxable--however these folks are still on the hook for all the other various taxes

I don't buy that all the various other taxes are 40%. If so, then my effective tax rate is more like 60%.............Yea, I call BS.

Later,

Geo

[vetbass]

I still don't get it.............PROVIDE a link, any link.......

AND I can GUARANTEE you that my effective tax rate is no where near 40%. EVEN with the double taxation on various things. I still don't get it.

How about you BREAK IT DOWN.



I don't buy that all the various other taxes are 40%. If so, then my effective tax rate is more like 60%.............Yea, I call BS.

Later,

Geo

these figures come from an article found on the alternet website--the article sites its sources as studies done by the CBO and by a study conducted by a pair of boston university econimists Lawrence Kotlikoff and David Rapson--and no i dont personally know these economists--you will just have to trust as i did that these economists are upstanding educators who have produced a study based in something close to reality

im quite sure if you spent enough time researching on the internet you could find some evidence that counters every claim made in the article, by the cbo and by the university economists as you could also find proof that santa claus and easter bunny are real--if you dont believe these claims you can watch any number of news programs--ive seen probably a dozen or more segments over the years on various shows (except fox news) explaining the truth about that bottom 46%

even if all these assumptions are wrong and you or I pay more in taxes than those 46% are you really wanting to ask these folks to pay more in taxes when they often times have the terrible decision of giving up food heat or maybe their medications because they cant afford all 3 on the small amount of gov assist they do recieve--i am quite thankful the good lord has blessed me and in no way mind paying more in taxes if needed to help that 46%--you never know you or i may become part of that 46% someday and i hope both of us would be extremely thankful for that gov assist--if you dont believe me go ask someone living in squallor in mexico or somolia how blessed we are to have a gov that tries to take care of its people

each one of us must use our intellectual abilities to decide what we believe and dont believe--thank god we live in a country that allows us to make that choice

Thanks for the link to the guide website and good luck at dale

[GeoFisher]

these figures come from an article found on the alternet website--the article sites its sources as studies done by the CBO and by a study conducted by a pair of boston university econimists Lawrence Kotlikoff and David Rapson--and no i dont personally know these economists--you will just have to trust as i did that these economists are upstanding educators who have produced a study based in something close to reality

and YET you still refuse to provide the link??

I don't get it.

And I've done a little research myself on this, and I stand by what I've said.........NO ONE I know comes near the 40% effective rate you state.......Do you??

Later,

Geo