State of Healthcare is worse than I thought

[lroberts]

This is why we have Obamacare. If everyone has insurance the will not be freeloaders. Everyone will be paying their share.

Who do think will pay for those covered freeloaders???? Still the taxpayers who have jobs! Dumb statement by you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kydonky]

Who do think will pay for those covered freeloaders???? Still the taxpayers who have jobs! Dumb statement by you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Taxpayers pay for those freeloaders now. There are 100,000s who do not buy insurance because they would rather spend money on bigger houses, cars, toys, etc. When they have a healthcare crisis they receive treatment and hospitals & health providers distribute the costs and adjust billing accordingly. Medicaide kicks in when they spend down. You pay, I pay. Many of these people do not intend to be freeloaders, they are healthy now and figure they do not need health ins. But 10,000s and 10,000s have unexpected health problems and end up being the "freeloaders".

Just saying that everyone needs to pay their share. It's basic insurance 101. The bigger the insurance pool, the wider the risk is spread and the more affordable insurance costs.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrSplitshot]

I struggle a lot with the healthcare debate.

There are 50.9 Million People in the United States without Health Insurance, or 16.3% of the population. While there are some people with incomes above the poverty line who choose not to take insurance because they feel the cost is too high or because of other factors....and while there are some young people that don't take health insurance because they think they are invincible....I'd bank that the grand majority of the uninsured are the unemployed, the under-employed, and the poor. We consider a lot of people "voluntarily uninsured" because they have incomes above the poverty line, but my God...the poverty line for a family of 4 in the US is something like $22,000! Yes, a guy making $29,000 a year for a family of 4 is above the poverty line...but try paying for things at today's prices for a family of 4 on $29,000 a year without help. Figure that you bring home at most $500 a week, $2,000 a month. Rent. Utilities. Transportation/gas back and forth to work. Groceries, medicine, diapers, basic necessities, clothes for the kids...money to put new brakes on the car when they wear out. Now, figure the weekly cost of the family health insurance plan coming out of that $500 per week. It's tough. The guy isn't "voluntarily uninsured"...he just can't freaking afford $150/week to come out of his check. Yes, Mom could work...and then give every bit of her bring home to daycare for the kids. Okay, some people like to throw around "Get a better job, you bum, so that you can afford to support your family!"...but (1) at least the guy is working, and (2) at the very least his kids shouldn't suffer without healthcare for something that's not their fault.

17% of all ER Visits in 2009 were by folks who did not have health insurance. If a guy with no insurance walks into a hospital with life-threatening injury, he's going to be treated and taken care of. The bill will be thousands upon thousands of dollars that he can't possibly pay and will end up being written off. The rest of us pay for that through these excessive charges that are given to those who can pay, and who have insurance.

I'm a moderate Republican on most issues. However, I've somewhat changed my mind recently and actually believe that the government has some kind of definitive role in health care. The government has to be there to prop up some people who can't prop up themselves - It's too big a task for the church or for private charities. If left up to free enterprise and capitalism, the guy without insurance who walks into an ER with a life threatening issue would be left to die because there is no profit in helping him and no method of payment. Sorry, but I just don't think that should happen in our world. Health care really shouldn't be run like a business, because businesses don't provide goods and services to people who can't pay. If you can't pay for a 55" HDTV, you just don't get one. If you can't pay to have a metal rod removed from your chest after a car accident, I kinda think there ought to be some kind of recourse to help you out instead of just letting you die. "Life-sustaining" health care should be run like a police department, a fire department, or a government agency that provides a service to the citizens of this country. Diverting money from foreign aid to help pay for the healthcare of our own citizens on our own soil who can't afford it would be fine with me. The sad part is that the government is far too inept and dysfunctional to do it.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...it doesn't say Life (only for those above a line on a poverty chart who can afford health insurance), liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[greenriverman1]

I struggle a lot with the healthcare debate.

There are 50.9 Million People in the United States without Health Insurance, or 16.3% of the population. While there are some people with incomes above the poverty line who choose not to take insurance because they feel the cost is too high or because of other factors....and while there are some young people that don't take health insurance because they think they are invincible....I'd bank that the grand majority of the uninsured are the unemployed, the under-employed, and the poor. We consider a lot of people "voluntarily uninsured" because they have incomes above the poverty line, but my God...the poverty line for a family of 4 in the US is something like $22,000! Yes, a guy making $29,000 a year for a family of 4 is above the poverty line...but try paying for things at today's prices for a family of 4 on $29,000 a year without help. Figure that you bring home at most $500 a week, $2,000 a month. Rent. Utilities. Transportation/gas back and forth to work. Groceries, medicine, diapers, basic necessities, clothes for the kids...money to put new brakes on the car when they wear out. Now, figure the weekly cost of the family health insurance plan coming out of that $500 per week. It's tough. The guy isn't "voluntarily uninsured"...he just can't freaking afford $150/week to come out of his check. Yes, Mom could work...and then give every bit of her bring home to daycare for the kids. Okay, some people like to throw around "Get a better job, you bum, so that you can afford to support your family!"...but (1) at least the guy is working, and (2) at the very least his kids shouldn't suffer without healthcare for something that's not their fault.

17% of all ER Visits in 2009 were by folks who did not have health insurance. If a guy with no insurance walks into a hospital with life-threatening injury, he's going to be treated and taken care of. The bill will be thousands upon thousands of dollars that he can't possibly pay and will end up being written off. The rest of us pay for that through these excessive charges that are given to those who can pay, and who have insurance.

I'm a moderate Republican on most issues. However, I've somewhat changed my mind recently and actually believe that the government has some kind of definitive role in health care. The government has to be there to prop up some people who can't prop up themselves - It's too big a task for the church or for private charities. If left up to free enterprise and capitalism, the guy without insurance who walks into an ER with a life threatening issue would be left to die because there is no profit in helping him and no method of payment. Sorry, but I just don't think that should happen in our world. Health care really shouldn't be run like a business, because businesses don't provide goods and services to people who can't pay. If you can't pay for a 55" HDTV, you just don't get one. If you can't pay to have a metal rod removed from your chest after a car accident, I kinda think there ought to be some kind of recourse to help you out instead of just letting you die. "Life-sustaining" health care should be run like a police department, a fire department, or a government agency that provides a service to the citizens of this country. Diverting money from foreign aid to help pay for the healthcare of our own citizens on our own soil who can't afford it would be fine with me. The sad part is that the government is far too inept and dysfunctional to do it.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...it doesn't say Life (only for those above a line on a poverty chart who can afford health insurance), liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Good post. I would just add one word that can not be left out. ILLEGALS!

[Big Gills]

There is an old expression that says "If it aint broke dont fix it". I think the opposite is true too and would like to say "If it is broke then fix it" Your health care system apprears to be broken so why not try to fix. At least Obama is trying to fix it. I really dont know how he is doing in that regard. But please STOP giving free healthcare to illegals. You folks make fun of our healthcare up here but we dont do the hand outs like you do. We dont give free healthcare unless you are a Canadian citizen. If you are illegals then you are taken by Immigration Officers to the airport and shipped back home. Anyway, I digress as I usually do. Just my 2 cents on the subject.

[DJD]

Brian,
You make some good points. The best one is the gubment being inept. I agree some sort of intervention, tweaking was necessary but the approach they took was wrong. Noone in their right mind knew what was in the bill when passed and it stunk to high heaven. When a bill starts off like that it's doomed to be another failed, bleeding, money sucking gubment program.
I have no faith that this was a good move. I see this as a political move nothing more. If they wanted to fix something they could have fixed many other things. Tort reform, border security, economy, foreign aid reform and on and on.
Going after healthcare was easy since they were not fixing failed policies like with other items I mentioned. In this case they were creating a new one (what they do best) and many people say its gonna cost big time! We will see once they start taxing us taxpayers for this program.

[MrSplitshot]

Brian,
You make some good points. The best one is the gubment being inept. I agree some sort of intervention, tweaking was necessary but the approach they took was wrong. Noone in their right mind knew what was in the bill when passed and it stunk to high heaven. When a bill starts off like that it's doomed to be another failed, bleeding, money sucking gubment program.
I have no faith that this was a good move. I see this as a political move nothing more. If they wanted to fix something they could have fixed many other things. Tort reform, border security, economy, foreign aid reform and on and on.
Going after healthcare was easy since they were not fixing failed policies like with other items I mentioned. In this case they were creating a new one (what they do best) and many people say its gonna cost big time! We will see once they start taxing us taxpayers for this program.

Oh, don't get me wrong....I don't think Obamacare and the bill were the answer either....the government is completely inept at trying to fix the problem. (Most problems, for that matter....and especially ones where cost and operational efficiency are involved!!)

But I do think they have to take a leading role...

Very basic example of government ineptness:

When Sara was born last month I filled out the paperwork at the hospital to get her birth certificate from the state. On the form, I asked for 5 official copies. When they arrived in the mail, it was 5 separate copies, in 5 separate envelopes, with 5 separate letters, and 5 separate postage charges. If it were you or me footing that bill as a private company, you save the cost of envelopes and the cost of postage by using common sense and putting all 5 in 1 envelope. Very basic example, but multiplied times over in many other areas when the government and anything related to cost or efficiency is concerned.

[RoadToad]

There's no easy answer. As I type this, my Mom is undergoing open heart surgery here in Lewes, DE (my wife and I drove up Friday night). She's already gotten some of the bills for the pre-surgery tests, and, while they're covered by Medicare and they don't have to pay any of them, they were still outraged at how high they were. Medicare was billed >$8,000 before she even went in for the actual surgery! It'll probably be close to a quarter million dollars by the time it's over with. But getting the government totally out of it is not the answer. Instead, we've got to get the government to make to right moves, something they've failed to do so far.

[Big Gills]

Prayers sent for you mom Roadtoad.

[DJD]

There's no easy answer. As I type this, my Mom is undergoing open heart surgery here in Lewes, DE (my wife and I drove up Friday night). She's already gotten some of the bills for the pre-surgery tests, and, while they're covered by Medicare and they don't have to pay any of them, they were still outraged at how high they were. Medicare was billed >$8,000 before she even went in for the actual surgery! It'll probably be close to a quarter million dollars by the time it's over with. But getting the government totally out of it is not the answer. Instead, we've got to get the government to make to right moves, something they've failed to do so far.

Prayers sent RT.....

[RoadToad]

Thanks guys. They got her on the table with the breathing tube in, and the anesthesiologist decided her pulmonary function wasn't good enough, and since it wasn't an emergency, they cancelled it. So now she's in ICU on the ventilator, expected to come off that by tomorrow, and will see a pulmonologist, and hopefully they can do it when her pulmonary function improves. My Dad is pretty upset about it, and she will be too when she finds out, not to mention madder than a wet hen. They did pulmonary tests pre-op, and said she was fine

[Chubminnow]

Sorry to hear about your mom Toad. Hang in there with your mom and dad as I know you already are. I recently had 1/2 my thyroid removed. Did the pre-op thing where they did the lab work the week before, etc. Day of surgery I arrived about 7:30 am, I left the hospital around 1:00 pm. Thus far (as far as I know), total costs were $12,500.00 dollars, my part out of pocket was smack dab dead on $1000.00 dollars. The fact that my out of pocket cost was $1000.00 dollars even sort of makes me wonder.