Words of wisdom from 10/31/1936

[Devils Horse]

--
Hard liners have never in the past and will probably never in the future be able to see beyond their belief that the folks who control our financial resources should be able to spoon feed the rest of us and in that process, keep our country the great place it is, it simply is not true... The financial health of our country isn't nearly as important to them as their bottom line... A hand full of super rich folks and the rest begging for a biscuit isn't exactly the foundation of our country.

Good grief. Nobody wants to be spoon fed anything by anyone...especially by a government that's more than 16 trillion dollars in debt. BTW, that's after confiscating over 25% of my damned pay every year.

Can you understand that fact, or are you too much of a Democrat hard liner to accept it?

Try and label people all you want, but the REAL hard liners are in the pro government political party you support.

In case you've forgotten the foundation of our country is supposed to be the Constitution...you know that inconvenient document the progressives that run the Democrat party keep trying to ignore.

[Hlleonard]

Good grief. Nobody wants to be spoon fed anything by anyone...especially by a government that's more than 16 trillion dollars in debt. BTW, that's after confiscating over 25% of my damned pay every year.

Can you understand that fact, or are you too much of a Democrat hard liner to accept it?

Try and label people all you want, but the REAL hard liners are in the pro government political party you support.

In case you've forgotten the foundation of our country is supposed to be the Constitution...you know that inconvenient document the progressives that run the Democrat party keep trying to ignore.

--
Nobody wants to be spoon fed anything by anyone

I was a fan of Mr. Regan but it does seem trickle down economics would fit the bill and it seems the republican party's agenda is anti-anything that gives bargaining power to folks who work for a living, unions, minimum wage.


especially by a government that's more than 16 trillion dollars in debt

Spoon feeding was not a reference to our government.


that's after confiscating over 25% of my damned pay every year.

25% of your or my wages is a tremendous load on folks who work for a living but you guys are always preaching that the rich pay too much taxes, in Mr Romneys case 14% so how do you suggest we collect enough tax dollars to keep our government afloat, it has to come either from the top, the middle or the bottom... Our government waste way too much money but if we start taxing folks like you and me at Mr Romneys rate, there isn't enough budget cuts anywhere to fill that gap.

In case you've forgotten the foundation of our country is supposed to be the Constitution...you know that inconvenient document the progressives that run the Democrat party keep trying to ignore.

That might have been inferred somewhere in my post.

[Devils Horse]

--
25% of your or my wages is a tremendous load on folks who work for a living but you guys are always preaching that the rich pay too much taxes, in Mr Romneys case 14% so how do you suggest we collect enough tax dollars to keep our government afloat, it has to come either from the top, the middle or the bottom... Our government waste way too much money but if we start taxing folks like you and me at Mr Romneys rate, there isn't enough budget cuts anywhere to fill that gap.

You've been snowed by Dem strategists so bad you miss the point. Who exactly preaches that the rich pay too much in taxes? Show me one quote.

Romney paid 6.2 million in taxes in 2010/11. More than you, me, and thousands like us will pay our entire lives. Now If the federal government took more of that money like your party preaches, they'd gave some of it out, buy some votes with some, and piss the rest away. Just like politicians always have, and always will do. Especially Democrats.

The so called loopholes allowing him to keep such a high percentage of his income are contingent on him putting money back into the economy. Which creates jobs for people like you and I, and encourages people to try and get rich just like him. How can you be too blind to see that?

Meanwhile the Democrat party demonizes the likes of him, and people like you swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Your party wants a federal nanny state with them in charge, all of us comfortably numb and paying sky high taxes.

[Hlleonard]

You've been snowed by Dem strategists so bad you miss the point. Who exactly preaches that the rich pay too much in taxes? Show me one quote.

Romney paid 6.2 million in taxes in 2010/11. More than you, me, and thousands like us will pay our entire lives. Now If the federal government took more of that money like your party preaches, they'd gave some of it out, buy some votes with some, and piss the rest away. Just like politicians always have, and always will do. Especially Democrats.

The so called loopholes allowing him to keep such a high percentage of his income are contingent on him putting money back into the economy. Which creates jobs for people like you and I, and encourages people to try and get rich just like him. How can you be too blind to see that?

Meanwhile the Democrat party demonizes the likes of him, and people like you swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Your party wants a federal nanny state with them in charge, all of us comfortably numb and paying sky high taxes.

--
Well..... If you have been a regular reader of this forum, I would think you wouldn't need quotes from some of these guys,which by the way I'm not going to start trying to dig up, but if I may borrow from your current post "Romney paid 6.2 million in taxes in 2010/11. More than you, me, and thousands like us will pay our entire lives" would seem to hint that you believe they do.
I would like to make one point though, I am a registered republican and have been for many years, not all republicans are hard liners, some actually have a sense of fair play including believing that it is unfair for you to pay 25% of your earnings in tax while Mr. Romney pays 14%.
The tax dollars that are collected by our government aren't always spent in the best way regardless of which party is in power at the time, republican or democrat... I guess we are speaking of Mr. Romney here but it fits folks of his financial standing, don't know what percentage of his income is earned from capital gains but I believe the tax rate is somewhere in the mid teens and I'm not aware of any requirement he has to reinvest that gain in order to keep it.... I do agree we have to play their game in order for them to invest their wealth but just because we have to coddle to them doesn't make it right for them to keep 85 cents out of every dollar they make while you get to keep 75 cents from your dollar. the rich are pretty much treated like spoiled brats.

[Devils Horse]

--
I guess we are speaking of Mr. Romney here but it fits folks of his financial standing, don't know what percentage of his income is earned from capital gains but I believe the tax rate is somewhere in the mid teens and I'm not aware of any requirement he has to reinvest that gain in order to keep it.

You've obviously got a kool aid buzz going so I'll try one more time.

Capital gains are made from money that's already been taxed.

Let's say you made an extra 100K, which of course you'd have to pay taxes on, then you invested the money. The government taxes the capital gains you make off your investment at 15% or so. Your overall effective tax rate winds up being probably around 30 to 35%. Sound like coddling to you?

Now if Mr. Obama and the Dems jack up the capital gains tax rate to say 30%, you probably wouldn't invest the 100k back into the U.S. economy would you? What do you think happens to the economy after you and hundreds of thousands more of you evil rich people stop investing in it?

Okay, open your 2011 federal 1040 book and look at the tax tables. Keep reading the destructions till you see what the tax rate is after someone makes more than the highest figure in the tables. You're looking at a 30 to 40% tax rate on that money. Nobody get's coddled brother, the government takes it's pound of flesh.

Believing the class warfare load of garbage the President is selling is silly. A perfect example was the government's big crack down on the yacht industry a few years back. The outcry was let's tax the hell out of those rich fat cats' million dollar yachts...so they did.

Care to guess what happened? No more yacht makers or yacht making jobs here. They moved offshore. Now rich people buy their yachts from some other country, and the U.S. government gets zilch in taxes from that industry. Worked out real good for us common folk didn't it?

Look, I'm no big sympathizer of the rich, they danged well should pay their fair share. Newsflash: THEY ALREADY DO! High earners already pay 70% of the taxes in America.

Mr Obama and his merry crew's tax the rich campaign is a steaming pile of excrement with a thin coat of sugar on it. Amazing how many millions grab a spoon and dig in instead of using their brain.

[Hlleonard]

Good afternoon to you Mr. Horse...

Capital gains are made from money that's already been taxed.

yes... and we can say that for pretty much everything we invest our money in that was taxed when we earned it and then had to pay tax when we spent it.

Let's say you made an extra 100K, which of course you'd have to pay taxes on, then you invested the money. The government taxes the capital gains you make off your investment at 15% or so. Your overall effective tax rate winds up being probably around 30 to 35%. Sound like coddling to you?

So by the accounting method you are using, the third time that money is turned over it is around 50% and so on, shortly it would be 100%, there seems to be a glitch somewhere as there continues to be money to reinvest.. Every investment stands alone in as far as taxes are concerned and yes it sounds like coddling to me, as I said before, just because we have to tolerate it does not make it right.

Now if Mr. Obama and the Dems jack up the capital gains tax rate to say 30%, you probably wouldn't invest the 100k back into the U.S. economy would you? What do you think happens to the economy after you and hundreds of thousands more of you evil rich people stop investing in it?

Now were back to the same thing, we have to tolerate (coddle) to the rich so they will continue to invest their wealth, just because we have to do it does not make it right.

Believing the class warfare load of garbage the President is selling is silly. A perfect example was the government's big crack down on the yacht industry a few years back. The outcry was let's tax the hell out of those rich fat cats' million dollar yachts...so they did.

Care to guess what happened? No more yacht makers or yacht making jobs here. They moved offshore. Now rich people buy their yachts from some other country, and the U.S. government gets zilch in taxes from that industry. Worked out real good for us common folk didn't it?

Seems to be more of the same, special treatment or they won't invest their money.

Look, I'm no big sympathizer of the rich, they danged well should pay their fair share. Newsflash: THEY ALREADY DO! High earners already pay 70% of the taxes in America.

I don't disagree, most folks who have two brain cells to rub together realize that the lions share of the taxes are paid by the richest of us but by that same token they also make the lions share of the income and no they do not pay their fair share of the taxes as their fair share would be the same percentage of their income as you and I pay, well, maybe not so much me anymore since I retired my tax percentage has gone down.

[RoadToad]

You've obviously got a kool aid buzz going so I'll try one more time.

Capital gains are made from money that's already been taxed.

Let's say you made an extra 100K, which of course you'd have to pay taxes on, then you invested the money. The government taxes the capital gains you make off your investment at 15% or so. Your overall effective tax rate winds up being probably around 30 to 35%. Sound like coddling to you?

Now if Mr. Obama and the Dems jack up the capital gains tax rate to say 30%, you probably wouldn't invest the 100k back into the U.S. economy would you? What do you think happens to the economy after you and hundreds of thousands more of you evil rich people stop investing in it?

Okay, open your 2011 federal 1040 book and look at the tax tables. Keep reading the destructions till you see what the tax rate is after someone makes more than the highest figure in the tables. You're looking at a 30 to 40% tax rate on that money. Nobody get's coddled brother, the government takes it's pound of flesh.

Believing the class warfare load of garbage the President is selling is silly. A perfect example was the government's big crack down on the yacht industry a few years back. The outcry was let's tax the hell out of those rich fat cats' million dollar yachts...so they did.

Care to guess what happened? No more yacht makers or yacht making jobs here. They moved offshore. Now rich people buy their yachts from some other country, and the U.S. government gets zilch in taxes from that industry. Worked out real good for us common folk didn't it?

Look, I'm no big sympathizer of the rich, they danged well should pay their fair share. Newsflash: THEY ALREADY DO! High earners already pay 70% of the taxes in America.

Mr Obama and his merry crew's tax the rich campaign is a steaming pile of excrement with a thin coat of sugar on it. Amazing how many millions grab a spoon and dig in instead of using their brain.

There's a lot I agree with here, but a couple points I really don't:

Let's say you made an extra 100K, which of course you'd have to pay taxes on, then you invested the money. The government taxes the capital gains you make off your investment at 15% or so. - This is true if you stick it straight into the stock market, but if you're smart and invest in some kind of IRA, or have a 401(k) available and can "funnel" it into that (sounds illegal but it's not), then you don't pay capital gains.

Now if Mr. Obama and the Dems jack up the capital gains tax rate to say 30%, you probably wouldn't invest the 100k back into the U.S. economy would you? - It never ceases to amaze me how Republicans continue to pull out this talking point, which ignores history. When Ronald Reagan reversed course and raised the capital gains tax from 20% to 28% in 1986 (yes, he increased taxes, in fact he did so more times than he cut them), it did not discourage new investment. The next several years were banner years for the economy, and George W. Bush inherited a budget surplus from Bill Clinton, which I've heard Republicans attribute to the economy the Clinton inherited from Reagan. The capital gains tax right now is at its lowest rate since the Great Depression, and there is no evidence that a low capital gains tax rate encourages investment, or that a high one discourages it. It never has in the past!

Now, if you want to talk about corporate tax rate and how we tax companies into moving offshore, that I agree with, and we're cutting off our nose to spite our face there. But there we're talking corporate income tax, not capital gains.

[GeoFisher]

There's a lot I agree with here, but a couple points I really don't:

Let's say you made an extra 100K, which of course you'd have to pay taxes on, then you invested the money. The government taxes the capital gains you make off your investment at 15% or so. - This is true if you stick it straight into the stock market, but if you're smart and invest in some kind of IRA, or have a 401(k) available and can "funnel" it into that (sounds illegal but it's not), then you don't pay capital gains.

You don't pay gains on this, but you DO pay taxes. If you put this in a ROTH IRA or a ROTH based 401K you pay the taxes at your standard income rate......

If it is a standard IRA or your standard 401K you pay INCOME taxes when you pull it out.

Either way, the "funneled" money you talk about is actually taxes at a higher rate...

The only way to not pay the gains on an investment that actually made money is to reinvest that money into some other instrument. There are some creative things you can do with property, etc, etc. but that is way beyond this discussion.

With regards to your comments about taxes and the same ole republican idea that people will not invest.

You're right and wrong. In a BOOMING economy, people will invest anyways, because paying 30 percent on a SURE FIRE investment is still not that bad compared to the fact that you kicked butt in the market.

Things certainly are not booming, and in this market, I'd not tax anyone investing in creating he economy to get us back on track. That is where you and I disagree. You think taxing big money will not have a dramatic effect on growth. I think taxing big money will DESTROY any potential for growth in the next 3-5 years.

Later,

Geo

[GeoFisher]

There's a lot I agree with here, but a couple points I really don't:

Let's say you made an extra 100K, which of course you'd have to pay taxes on, then you invested the money. The government taxes the capital gains you make off your investment at 15% or so. - This is true if you stick it straight into the stock market, but if you're smart and invest in some kind of IRA, or have a 401(k) available and can "funnel" it into that (sounds illegal but it's not), then you don't pay capital gains.

One other thing with regards to this statement.

90% of all investors in the stock market are not paying gains at all because they are not actually taking income from their investments.....rather they are reinvesting it. ANY anyone who invested in the market outside of their 401K over the last decade have losses to carryover for YEARS to come. I've got so many losses that I will not pay gains for a while....not until I hit the motherlode on the next best super tech stock or something .

My point:

People who actually live off of the gains, meaning those what are retired who sell off parts of their portfolio every year will be DESTROYED by a 50% increase in gains. Imagine if you've saved all your life and invested in Dow 50's or something else, and now that the OBAMUNISTS or whoever else in office cannot budget their ****, they decide to take a CRAP TON of your income. This will definitely hurt seniors who are independently secure. So much that the may not be independently secure.

And I'm not talking about millionaires and billionaires.......I'm talking about folks like my grandmother, who DIDN'T have the opportunities to grow income in a 401K. She instead invested in the market and takes her income from a combination of places......pension, social security and quite a bit in dividends from stock she owns........Those dividends are taxed as gains.....

There are lots of reasons to not raise gains......

Later,

Geo