Rich people and Taxes

[GeoFisher]

That is simply not true. There are no people in the highest brackets that pay only 15% of their earned income. What you are referring to is a 15% tax rate of dividend income which is entirely different. That 15% is actually a double tax, which has already been taxed once at the corporate rate. So any dividend income has been taxed at a corporate rate of somewhere between 15-35%, then taxed again with an additional 15% for the individual.

Do we really want to discourage investment in this countries economy? If we do, it will slow the economy further, which in turn results in less tax revenue. Individuals which take risk and invest in corporations would dry up dramatically if things like dividends and capital gains are viewed and taxed the same as guaranteed earned incomes.

I know saying the rich only pay 15% makes for a good soundbite but it is not an honest argument. What next, tax free bonds? Should we do away with those as well? Using your logic tax free bonds is the most unfair of all?

I AGREE completely with what you're saying, but you are a little off. I don't think it is double taxed.

In my case I buy some stock on the open market.........not a crap ton of stocks but I probably spend 1k a year adding additional pieces to my stock portfolio..........WHENEVER I have some extra money and I want to add, I generally ADD it there.

That 1000 is after tax.....so yea, I was taxed on it, but only the GAIN, meaning the value I made off of the sold instrument is taxed, and that is taxed and different rates. Say that 1000 dollars was invested in something that tripled in value, making the value now 3000. I made 2000, so that 2000 is taxed.

If I choose to sell that in the FIRST year of ownership, that is considered a short term gain and is taxed at my regular income rate.

If I choose to hold it and ride it out and have it for 1 year or more, then that is a long term gain and is taxed at 15%.......this is where the 15% for Mitt Romney comes from.

This may not be exactly right...but it is pretty close.

I hope this helps.

Later,

Geo

[mhall]

I'm the Big O and this is my trusty sidekick DumbJoe and we are here to save the day by taking money from the evil rich people to give to the poor needy folks..

Ta Da...................Sound of trumpet's and a mighty swoosh from their Cape and away...

FLIPPIN STUPID IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good God it's just frickin laughable!!!

[Hlleonard]

I'm the Big O and this is my trusty sidekick DumbJoe and we are here to save the day by taking money from the evil rich people to give to the poor needy folks..

Ta Da...................Sound of trumpet's and a mighty swoosh from their Cape and away...

FLIPPIN STUPID IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good God it's just frickin laughable!!!

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lol....Isn't that what all taxes are about, whether collected from the rich or the not so rich and given back to us in the form of highways,defense,disaster relief and all the other government programs tax dollars support.

[DJD]

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lol....Isn't that what all taxes are about, whether collected from the rich or the not so rich and given back to us in the form of highways,defense,disaster relief and all the other government programs tax dollars support.

True taxes make the country run but Big O and little Joe are selling it as tax the evil rich folks who "didn't build that" (sorry had to toss that in) don't pay enough and if you elect him he will make them pay!!!! Of course he is rich, Joe is rich and the majority of the legislators are rich. He has had how many years to do this? Also didn't he extend the Bush tax cuts?
How much you wanna bet they don't do their own taxes and have accountants who's job is to get every tax break possible for them. Hell some of those crooks don't even pay their taxes on time!! But yet they scream this garbage and people follow along like it's the way to prosperity. It's a scam and alot of folks are buying into it.
How long ago was it that the insider info was being fed to these congressmen and they were using that info to buy and sell stocks? Didn't that just happen and they passed a law to stop it?? Going on memory here without looking that up but if it went as I remember it's funny how that isn't mentioned anymore. Talk about crooked and evil!

[Hlleonard]

True taxes make the country run but Big O and little Joe are selling it as tax the evil rich folks who "didn't build that" (sorry had to toss that in) don't pay enough and if you elect him he will make them pay!!!! Of course he is rich, Joe is rich and the majority of the legislators are rich. He has had how many years to do this? Also didn't he extend the Bush tax cuts?
How much you wanna bet they don't do their own taxes and have accountants who's job is to get every tax break possible for them. Hell some of those crooks don't even pay their taxes on time!! But yet they scream this garbage and people follow along like it's the way to prosperity. It's a scam and alot of folks are buying into it.
How long ago was it that the insider info was being fed to these congressmen and they were using that info to buy and sell stocks? Didn't that just happen and they passed a law to stop it?? Going on memory here without looking that up but if it went as I remember it's funny how that isn't mentioned anymore. Talk about crooked and evil!

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I think it is shameful that our politicians can seemingly exempt themselves from the laws they pass for the rest of us... The sad part is just about all americans know this, I have probably gotten a hundred emails to that effect and we seem to have no power to stop this... I guess we are as free a country as congress wants us to be, kinda like puppets in a puppet show.

[SLP]

I AGREE completely with what you're saying, but you are a little off. I don't think it is double taxed.

In my case I buy some stock on the open market.........not a crap ton of stocks but I probably spend 1k a year adding additional pieces to my stock portfolio..........WHENEVER I have some extra money and I want to add, I generally ADD it there.

That 1000 is after tax.....so yea, I was taxed on it, but only the GAIN, meaning the value I made off of the sold instrument is taxed, and that is taxed and different rates. Say that 1000 dollars was invested in something that tripled in value, making the value now 3000. I made 2000, so that 2000 is taxed.

If I choose to sell that in the FIRST year of ownership, that is considered a short term gain and is taxed at my regular income rate.

If I choose to hold it and ride it out and have it for 1 year or more, then that is a long term gain and is taxed at 15%.......this is where the 15% for Mitt Romney comes from.

This may not be exactly right...but it is pretty close.

I hope this helps.

Later,

Geo

I apologize if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I meant. Let me try again and see if I can better make my point.

Dividends are paid by a corporation from after tax dollars. In other words dividends are not a tax right off for the company, but instead that money was already taxed once for that calendar year at the corporate level and then when paid out to the individual in the form of a dividend it is then taxed again for a second time.

My entire point is that if we are not talking about resentment of the "rich" but instead having an honest discussion about general tax revenue then dividends are a big win for the government because they will most often generate an even higher overall rate of tax return. Most large corporations that people invest in for dividend income will often be at the corporate rate of 35%. So using that as an example here are the numbers.

Let us use a $1000 of profit. It is taxed at the corporate level at 35% and the corporation pays the IRS $350 on those earnings. Then those same profit dollars are distributed to share holders in the form of dividends. The individual will also be charged a tax on that same money at the 15% rate and pay the IRS and additional $150 on the same money. That is how it is double taxed by the IRS. The same money is taxed twice. They are collecting a total of $500 or 50% in taxes for that $1000 of profit which ends up paid out in dividends.

IMO it is a win/win situation. It generates higher tax revenue, while at the same time encourages investment from individuals in our countries economy. If the IRS instead taxed it as an ordinary earned income, there would be much less incentive for individuals to risk their money, and the results would drastically hurt our economy.

Remember a dividend is paid out to shareholders who are part owners in the company. It is a way of distributing profits. It is entirely different than earned income.

[GeoFisher]

I apologize if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I meant. Let me try again and see if I can better make my point.

Dividends are paid by a corporation from after tax dollars. In other words dividends are not a tax right off for the company, but instead that money was already taxed once for that calendar year at the corporate level and then when paid out to the individual in the form of a dividend it is then taxed again for a second time.

My entire point is that if we are not talking about resentment of the "rich" but instead having an honest discussion about general tax revenue then dividends are a big win for the government because they will most often generate an even higher overall rate of tax return. Most large corporations that people invest in for dividend income will often be at the corporate rate of 35%. So using that as an example here are the numbers.

Let us use a $1000 of profit. It is taxed at the corporate level at 35% and the corporation pays the IRS $350 on those earnings. Then those same profit dollars are distributed to share holders in the form of dividends. The individual will also be charged a tax on that same money at the 15% rate and pay the IRS and additional $150 on the same money. That is how it is double taxed by the IRS. The same money is taxed twice. They are collecting a total of $500 or 50% in taxes for that $1000 of profit which ends up paid out in dividends.

IMO it is a win/win situation. It generates higher tax revenue, while at the same time encourages investment from individuals in our countries economy. If the IRS instead taxed it as an ordinary earned income, there would be much less incentive for individuals to risk their money, and the results would drastically hurt our economy.

Remember a dividend is paid out to shareholders who are part owners in the company. It is a way of distributing profits. It is entirely different than earned income.

AH..........I wasn't catching that version, but yea, I guess dividends are double taxed.....I have some stocks that pay dividends, but those are tied into my IRA. All those dividends are rolled into the IRA and not taken as income. I guess if I actually did take the 34 dollars I made in dividend income last year, I'd be taxed on it.

Point Taken.

I''m really beginning to HATE taxes even more..............GRR.

Later,

Geo

[know1]

I apologize if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I meant. Let me try again and see if I can better make my point.

Dividends are paid by a corporation from after tax dollars. In other words dividends are not a tax right off for the company, but instead that money was already taxed once for that calendar year at the corporate level and then when paid out to the individual in the form of a dividend it is then taxed again for a second time.

My entire point is that if we are not talking about resentment of the "rich" but instead having an honest discussion about general tax revenue then dividends are a big win for the government because they will most often generate an even higher overall rate of tax return. Most large corporations that people invest in for dividend income will often be at the corporate rate of 35%. So using that as an example here are the numbers.

Let us use a $1000 of profit. It is taxed at the corporate level at 35% and the corporation pays the IRS $350 on those earnings. Then those same profit dollars are distributed to share holders in the form of dividends. The individual will also be charged a tax on that same money at the 15% rate and pay the IRS and additional $150 on the same money. That is how it is double taxed by the IRS. The same money is taxed twice. They are collecting a total of $500 or 50% in taxes for that $1000 of profit which ends up paid out in dividends.

IMO it is a win/win situation. It generates higher tax revenue, while at the same time encourages investment from individuals in our countries economy. If the IRS instead taxed it as an ordinary earned income, there would be much less incentive for individuals to risk their money, and the results would drastically hurt our economy.

Remember a dividend is paid out to shareholders who are part owners in the company. It is a way of distributing profits. It is entirely different than earned income.

Until our government shows a true willingness to decrease spending in a significant way, I am unilaterally opposed to any discussion of increased tax revenue. Why does our government need more?

A lot of people want to talk about "fair share" when it comes to taxes, but I believe the government already has its fair share and it's wasting a ton of it and continually wanting more.