Time to ban em!

[HURRICANEBOB]

[QUOTE=Devils Horse;505579]I'm pro-choice in cases of incest or rape, but using abortion as a means of birth control is just plain wrong. Problem is having one without the other is not really feasible. A very sticky issue.

QUOTE]

Given your thought, I think you can have it both ways. If I kill a person in cold blood, with no moral reason to do so, it's murder, I'm a criminal. But if I take the same gun, and shoot someone threatening me with a gun, it's self defense, and its authorized, and prudent.

I think it can be okay in some circumstances and wrong in others.

[Devils Horse]

[QUOTE=HURRICANEBOB;505647]

I'm pro-choice in cases of incest or rape, but using abortion as a means of birth control is just plain wrong. Problem is having one without the other is not really feasible. A very sticky issue.

QUOTE]

Given your thought, I think you can have it both ways. If I kill a person in cold blood, with no moral reason to do so, it's murder, I'm a criminal. But if I take the same gun, and shoot someone threatening me with a gun, it's self defense, and its authorized, and prudent.

I think it can be okay in some circumstances and wrong in others.

The situation you describe is a lot more cut and dried, abortion is far more complex.

From a legal perspective I don't know when, if ever an unborn baby is recognized as a living person with the rights of a citizen. When a fetus is recognized as a human being is really the key issue.

It's pretty straightforward to write murder vs self defense laws, there are only 2 people involved. With abortions, the mother figures into the picture.

[jcb]

These abortions are taking place in america, we are a free nation with rights. Someone telling a woman she cant have an abortion because of what they "believe" or what they think is "right" is wrong and against her rights.

Freedom doesn't mean we can all just do whatever we want. Every single law we have comes from what someone "believes" or "thinks is right," doesn't it? We don't live in a vacuum. We're all bound by the collective laws we've put together. Right now, abortion is legal, although I think that's wrong. And I have zero--zero--problem working to change that.

You're right, I can't (and I wouldn't) tell a woman she can't have an abortion, because it's legal to have one right now. No one in the right-to-life movement is "telling women they can't have abortions." We are working to make illegal what we feel is an unjust, immoral act through the political process. 'Murica.

Which takes me to another point on this issue - I'm not disqualified from having an opinion, or being active in this political area, because I don't have a uterus. That is a false argument womens' rights group use. This is my society, this is my country too. I don't have a child with Downs Syndrome either, but if there was a law saying that child should be put to death I'd be fighting against that one too.

[mhall]

I just read the last two posts, where abortion is justified by saying it's God's will, and we have a God-given right to perform them.

I believe God has consistently revealed himself to be a protector of the helpless. Life is a sacred gift from God. That's my rationale for believing abortion is wrong.

What's the rationale you two have for believing abortion is God's will and we have a God-given right to perform them?

Thats Strong, well put man...

[kygorski]

I just read the last two posts, where abortion is justified by saying it's God's will, and we have a God-given right to perform them.

I believe God has consistently revealed himself to be a protector of the helpless. Life is a sacred gift from God. That's my rationale for believing abortion is wrong.

What's the rationale you two have for believing abortion is God's will and we have a God-given right to perform them?

Why didn't God stop aurora , colombine,sandy hook. All the tragedys. It happens because its his will. You cant believe other wise.What does God only get credit for the great things in life? this isn't blasphemy,or sacrelidge. Just ask a minister or priest why someone YOU loved died? Odds are thats what the answer will be.I've heard several times.

[jcb]

Why didn't God stop aurora , colombine,sandy hook. All the tragedys. It happens because its his will. You cant believe other wise.What does God only get credit for the great things in life? this isn't blasphemy,or sacrelidge. Just ask a minister or priest why someone YOU loved died? Odds are thats what the answer will be.I've heard several times.

That topic is worthy of another thread, but if you simply get the answer "it's God's will" from a minister when you ask why someone you loved died, it's time to find a different church.

[kygorski]

That topic is worthy of another thread, but if you simply get the answer "it's God's will" from a minister when you ask why someone you loved died, it's time to find a different church.

Do you ever say the lords prayer? Think about it.Most of the churces I've visited, and all that I attended said that.

[jcb]

Do you ever say the lords prayer? Think about it.Most of the churces I've visited, and all that I attended said that.

I'm not saying there's no such thing as God's will. I'm saying the existence of evil, and suffering, and death is a lot more complicated than simply saying "it's God's will."

Here's a good article I read recently on the topic.

[bassin_bug]

Why didn't God stop aurora , colombine,sandy hook. All the tragedys. It happens because its his will. You cant believe other wise.What does God only get credit for the great things in life? this isn't blasphemy,or sacrelidge. Just ask a minister or priest why someone YOU loved died? Odds are thats what the answer will be.I've heard several times.

When God threw Satan and 1/3 of the angels out of Heaven, they fell to the earth to cause evil. They are still here today and will be until the end of time, and then will be thrown into Hell along with the unsaved and non-believers. The Bible says that "Satan has come for no other reason but to KILL, STEAL, AND DESTROY. Don't go saying that death and devastations in the earth are the will of God. He had nothing to do with it; put the blame where it belongs, on Satan.

I didn't have to ask the preacher why one of my loved ones died. I KNOW, and God didn't cause the sickness of my dad or my sister who was also young mother of 2 babies, still in diapers. Their body is made of flesh and bodies get sick or old and die, that's how life is. The life of neither flesh or plants is eternal on earth.

[HURRICANEBOB]

"Opinions are like ARS-WHOLES: Everybody has one"

So what then can we conclude about some one who expresses loud, hard, opinions?

OMG....I crack myself up.

[kygorski]

I guess we were not listening either. We had ours in the same year. Now I know what they meant when they said how do you fill carniege hall. Practise,practise, practise.