drone strikes against

[HURRICANEBOB]

Yea, using drones is a great idea if you want to keep your hands clean, but war is DIRTY.

Later,

Geo

Given that logic, may I recommned you join a local SWAT team and arrive at each armed robbery and shooting incident with a sociology manual in your shoulder holster. Good luck, and best wishes with all that.

[HURRICANEBOB]

Just so we have a common frame of reference.

INTENSE Firefight | Afghanistan | Live Action Combat Footage | Helmet Cam | [HD] - YouTube

[Catfish Bob]

No one has said the one thing that I think is very dangerous.

For every enemy target that a drone hits/blows up, not only are the targets killed but most of the time innocent civilians are killed too.

Do we really need drones patrolling in this nation? A nation in which every town has a police department, every state has a police, FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, National Guard and so on. Do we really need drones?

What if a drone is used on U.S soil to strike down a domestic terrorist and two innocent civilians who were too close are also severely injured or killed? How would you feel about it then?

The civilians killed by drone strikes in far away lands never get much more mention than the bottom screen scrolling ticker on the news. I think here it would be much different.

The comment about finding pot growers and what not,,,,,Just think for a second, how is it they are able to see through roofs and floors and into basements? Inferred heat sensors right? Now your in bed having fun with your ol lady and guess who is watching? Might not be great picture but whoever is watching probably won't care.
Do not be naive and think that they just see pot plants,,,,no, they see you in your garage working, your kid on the couch playing video games, etc,,,

[Hlleonard]

Man I have to say your being naive thinking we haven't done some atrocious things in war....it's war. The millions of men and women who have fought for the USA can't be watched all the time but we get glimpses of things and if you get glimpses your only seeing a small percentage.....but what is torture? Aggressive interrogation techniques? Who defines it? Is a picture posing with captives torture? Waterboarding?
As humans we all get emotional and stress will do some things to you that otherwise never comes out. Look at the Vietnam war, WWII and the more recent wars.
I don't think every soldier tortures and not every instance requires it but when it's time to torture to get info from prisoner or take care of business I say do it and move on. The potus was against it and all this other drivel about Gitmo and terrorist being tortured. McCain even took the approach of no torture but it's just my opinion that they are wrong. It doesn't mean I don't respect McCain I just don't agree with him. Now the potus....I respect next to nothing about him. Haha breaking news huh?

--
I do understand the feelings a lot of us have about this issue and I know also that a good bit of these kinds of things happen and the temptation to use methods that maybe a lot of us might oppose, I also understand that the majority of us who are saying not to do these things are not close to the situation and demanding something be done then passing judgement on how it is done... I just don't believe we should have a policy of using torture as an accepted method of interrogation... As far as water boarding, I'm not sure that can be considered torture, it seems to be more psychological than psychical to me but I have not been water boarded so I don't know, doesn't seem any worse to me than putting a bright light in his face and yelling at him for 10 or 12 hours.

[RoadToad]

No one has said the one thing that I think is very dangerous.

For every enemy target that a drone hits/blows up, not only are the targets killed but most of the time innocent civilians are killed too.

Do we really need drones patrolling in this nation? A nation in which every town has a police department, every state has a police, FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, National Guard and so on. Do we really need drones?

What if a drone is used on U.S soil to strike down a domestic terrorist and two innocent civilians who were too close are also severely injured or killed? How would you feel about it then?

The civilians killed by drone strikes in far away lands never get much more mention than the bottom screen scrolling ticker on the news. I think here it would be much different.

That's why I say using them on American soil is a line we should not cross. I'm all for using them abroad; especially when logistically, it just makes sense. And I could care less if the targets happen to be American citizens; if they're working with terrorists, they're fair targets.

The comment about finding pot growers and what not,,,,,Just think for a second, how is it they are able to see through roofs and floors and into basements? Inferred heat sensors right? Now your in bed having fun with your ol lady and guess who is watching? Might not be great picture but whoever is watching probably won't care.
Do not be naive and think that they just see pot plants,,,,no, they see you in your garage working, your kid on the couch playing video games, etc,,,

Surely you don't think this technology is unique to drones, do you? Any plane or helicopter flying over your house can be outfitted with the same devices, and obtain the same information. Hell, a lot of it they can get from Satellites!

[HURRICANEBOB]

--
it seems to be more psychological than psychical to me but I have not been water boarded so I don't know, doesn't seem any worse to me than putting a bright light in his face and yelling at him for 10 or 12 hours.

It's both. The physical trauma of a near drowning sensation causes reduced will to resist. The fear of having to endure that sensation again makes compliance a less painful alternative.

Ever hear someone say "Answer me or I'll hold you down till you bubble"? Same thing.

[Hlleonard]

It's both. The physical trauma of a near drowning sensation causes reduced will to resist. The fear of having to endure that sensation again makes compliance a less painful alternative.

Ever hear someone say "Answer me or I'll hold you down till you bubble"? Same thing.

--
I'm guessing the persons we capture do have information that is useful to us but me like a lot of other folks aren't sure how far we should go in extracting that information, if we are going to get any information there has to be some means we can use to do so and water boarding seem to be the lesser of most of the evils I have heard about, I'm sure most of these individuals aren't too forth coming with what they might know.

[HURRICANEBOB]

--
I'm guessing the persons we capture do have information that is useful to us but me like a lot of other folks aren't sure how far we should go in extracting that information, if we are going to get any information there has to be some means we can use to do so and water boarding seem to be the lesser of most of the evils I have heard about, I'm sure most of these individuals aren't too forth coming with what they might know.

I agree, a civilized society under attack by less restrained adversaries ends up walking a fine line between gaining information to protect it's people and still remaining a humane society.

Interrogators realize, sometimes the information you get is just what the person thinks you want to hear to stop the pain, as opposed to the truth. Sometimes the more civilized way gets better intel, rewards vs punishment, carrots vs sticks. Lots of tools available to interrogators. And I agree with you, its a balancing act to ensure the means really do justify the results.

As a freind of mine says "It's a matter of what you can live with to stay living, versus the living you won't do if you try to live without it".

[roadrunner]

My personal opinion I do not think we should use enhanced interrogation if we are fighting a war with another country. Their soldiers are just like ours they are fighting for their country. I do not believe we extend the same principles to terrorist in my view they are totally different than someone who's is fighting a war for a country. A terrorist is not a human being in my book they are a rabid animal that need to be put down.

[Tyme2fish]

roadrunner, I understand what you're stating but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
In 1776 I'm sure the "patriots" were considered terrorists by King George.

To the victors goes the right to write history.

[Catfish Bob]

Surely you don't think this technology is unique to drones, do you? Any plane or helicopter flying over your house can be outfitted with the same devices, and obtain the same information. Hell, a lot of it they can get from Satellites!

Don't think that the technology is unique to drones.
Your right helicopters and satellites. I assume city and county does not have access to high power spy satellites but I could be wrong.

Difference between a drone and a helicopter is that a drone is silent and helicopters are very loud. If your being watched by a helicopter it won't take long to figure it out, a drone and you'd never know.
Drones would basically be giving city and county folk high power spy satellites with the power to blow stuff up.

When I think about the officials in my state, do not want them to have this type of power, they already have too much power anyway in my opinion.

Just looking at how far along Night Vision has come in the last fifteen years,,,I bet these drones pick up half way clear images.


And I'm sure Fed guberment is already using drones anyways so all this debating is probably just p****ing in the wind.

[RoadToad]

Difference between a drone and a helicopter is that a drone is silent and helicopters are very loud. If your being watched by a helicopter it won't take long to figure it out, a drone and you'd never know.
Drones would basically be giving city and county folk high power spy satellites with the power to blow stuff up.

When I think about the officials in my state, do not want them to have this type of power, they already have too much power anyway in my opinion.

Who's talking about giving "city and county folk" access to drones?