Cumberlad report

[peter]

Lake Cumberland report. Water temp was 43 degrees at mouth of greasy and 45° towards the back later in the day. Bait was dimpling the surface and easily catchable with a cast net between first lite and sunrise. Some nice big fat threadfinss and some medium-sized alewives. I was using a half inch mesh net and did pull in some small one and a half to 2 inch threadfins. My guess is that had I been using a smaller mesh net it would have been loaded with the smaller bait. The stripers seemed to be scattered and about 30 to 45 feet deep with some coming to the surface in the early hour when the bait was on the surface.

The bait was loosing a lot of scales and quite a few quickly died in the 45 degree lake water in the bait tank.

Anybody have any ideas in bait loosing scales and dying? Does the cold water require different care?

Below if you look closely you can see the bait on the surface. The photo was looking downstream toward the pump station that is on the located on the bank.

[Duayne]

What size tank are you using and how much salt? Are you using a water pump filter\ aerator or an air pump? Did many of those baits get hung up in the 1/2 mesh?

I use a capful or two of shad keeper along with two double cupped hand fulls of water softener salt for 30 gallons. My 3/8" mesh net is very smooth and silky. I could rinse my first bass pro nets after netting bait and scales would go everywhere. My current net doesn't have any that I can tell. I just purchased a new tank and this tank won't even have a filter system on it and I'll only use an air pump. I'll change out water instead of filtering it.

Threadfins are really hit and miss as to how long they will last on the hook. Sometimes they do fine, sometimes (usually) not and it doesn't matter what you do.

[air1lch]

Duayne makes a good point. In general, 1/2" is good for gizzards but you'll be more prone to gillhangars (i.e. scale loss) if using 1/2" for alewives/threadfin. Use 3/8", even 1/4" depending on size of bait. Also, may want to try a little more salt. 30 gal tank calls for 1 lb rock salt and 1-2 tablespoons bait saver or 4 oz shad saver. The rock salt helps prevent scale loss, so you may want to add a little more.

[peter]

What size tank are you using and how much salt? Are you using a water pump filter\ aerator or an air pump? Did many of those baits get hung up in the 1/2 mesh?

I use a capful or two of shad keeper along with two double cupped hand fulls of water softener salt for 30 gallons. My 3/8" mesh net is very smooth and silky. I could rinse my first bass pro nets after netting bait and scales would go everywhere. My current net doesn't have any that I can tell. I just purchased a new tank and this tank won't even have a filter system on it and I'll only use an air pump. I'll change out water instead of filtering it.

Threadfins are really hit and miss as to how long they will last on the hook. Sometimes they do fine, sometimes (usually) not and it doesn't matter what you do.

I was surprised. I only had two or three get gilled and pulled up a few really small baits. In another thread somebody pointed out to pull the net up slowly which helps prevent gilling and I did that. Maybe this is why there was not much gilling? (I'll have a better idea after a few more times) I was encouraged with the results of the half inch mesh though. You would think it would gill medium sized baits but it did not.

One tank has a pump that adds new water with an overthrow. The other one is a 15 gallon with a 12 volt bubbler.

Water tends to spill out of my tanks because of the way the tanks are and the things I do so I don't use any salt. All I use is chlorine treatment if I am using ice in the summer. I don't want the salt in my aluminum boat because of problems salt can create. When I find a good tank with a small foot print and a good lid that will fit in my boat (looking for one) I will get it and put large amounts of salt and other things in it.

My bait only has to last for 3 to 4 hours max (that's about all it will last the way I take care of it).

Maybe I have not netted bait in the past when the water was 45 degrees. The bait lost lots scales and died in the live well very similar to how they would in July when it's hot. I just thought that was weird and was wondering if there is a difference in keeping bait alive when the water is 45 vs when the water is 60?

This is basically the same bait care I use all spring up until the end of June when a better system is needed to keep bait alive for any amount of time in the hot weather and I switch to shinners.

[Duayne]

The salt is a pretty important part of keeping Alewives and shad pretty much year round. I use more in the summer than in the winter but it's still pretty important. It does two things well and a third OK. It helps the physical condition of the bait as far as hardening the scales and helping prevent red nose. Have you noticed much red nose on your baits? It also helps add density to the water and dense water holds dissolved oxygen better. The colder water is also more dense so that isn't as important now and the reason i don't add as much salt now as in the summer. It also helps with stress on the bait to a degree. I also add the shad saver to help with this as well but only when adding new bait to the tank. The flow through tank would have the same issues as the bubbler tank. Can you fill it and turn it off so it just stays full without the overflow? If so, I would add salt and a bubbler to it as well if it doesn't have the splash problem. Having two tanks set up has an advantage. If one goes south the other may not.

I just purchased the 30 gallon keep alive round insulated tank. It appears to be designed well with regard to water splashing out. I'll let you know how it does. It's seems to be a perfect size for where I want to put it.

If you can get buy with that .5" net without much gilling then you should go for it. A .5 will sink faster and stay open wider than a smaller mesh. Do this test the next time. After netting bait rinse the net out really well and check the water to see how many scales come off the net. If it's a bunch, then I would suggest a different net.

[peter]

Thanks air1and Duane. I hear you on the salt. I'll be careful and give some salt a try next time. Maybe I need a bigger boat so I can just go out and get a real bait tank and still be able to get from point A to point B in the boat - haha.

That shallow livewell/bait tank is the biggest problem. The height of the overflow keeps the well pretty full.. Then on the way to boat plane the water runs out the back.I could reduce that height of the overflow but that would eliminate a lot of the capacity Yeah, I could empty it some manually every time I move or put the boat on the trailer. Trailering creates a lots of unavoidable splashing-even my usual mile and a half. Probably not good to have ultra salty water in the bilge of an alum boat all the time.

I'll check the 1/2 net for scales next time and compare that situation to my 3/8 mesh net.

Thanks for the tips.

[HURRICANEBOB]

I just purchased the 30 gallon keep alive round insulated tank. It appears to be designed well with regard to water splashing out. I'll let you know how it does. It's seems to be a perfect size for where I want to put it.

Does that tank have the pump built in to it? Is it the kind of pump that not only recirculates the water, but also runs it thru a filter as well as adding air to the water? I've consider those tanks but just could never connect the dots in the ads as to what was really in side.

For year I used a battlewagon oval 26 gallon, with a Keep Alive KeepAlive Aerators, Fish Tanks, Bait Tanks,and Oxygen systems Portables ...The aerator that will keep bait and fish such as bass alive in baitwells and livewells longer. suction cupped to the bottom, and the extra large filter they offer. Added air, circulated water great, and filtered scales. To get fresh water in I just added a hose to the spray head in my on board live well, that I could attach and detach, and ran it to the oval live well to pump water in, and then the oval tank had a thru hull high drain and hose to take the overflow overboard.

[Duayne]

Bob, This tank has a plate mounted on the bottom for a keep alive pump but i am taking it out. Other than that, there is no pump built in. It has a hose threaded drain plug that I am going to plumb with a hose Y adapter. One side of the Y will go to my boat's pump to fill and the other will go to a drain hose. I'll add an air pump and change water out versus filter.

The concept on Cumberland with regard to storing bait has changed. Instead of running a filter pump that causes bait to lose scales, thus, a need to filter, do not run a pump, let the bait keep their scales and remove the need to filter. It also means you can spend a lot less on a tank.

This one is insulated and that is a must in the simmer time. Otherwise, the requirements are pretty simple. No sharp corners, condition the water properly, add an air bubbler that helps add oxygen to the water while helping take CO2 out. Change out part of the water and recondition as needed.

[Shellkat]

This might be a dumb question but do you troll or straight line fish, like shiners for small mouth with those shad you are catching. We shiner fish all the time, I keep them in a cooler with a bubbler and rarely have any die. I guess what I'm asking is how you fish with those shad

[Duayne]

Troll them on planer boards, down lines bobbers\ballons AND freeline. We also bottom fish with them. There is a wealth of information on all those on this site. Shiners are very easy to keep in great shape compared to the bait fish we are keeping in tanks. They can be very delicate and the better shape they are in once they go on the hook, the better they will work for you.

[Shellkat]

Thanks, new to this striper fishing, got into some boils last year, its on now

[Technonorb]

This is awesome information guys.... Thanks. Tech