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  1. #1
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    Guys... I haven't tried to hide my stance on the abortion issue and because of that I have been chastised for that stance... I do not believe any rights a fetus might have outweigh the rights of s woman who is a citizen of this country....

    I believe a lot of you seem to be wishy washey on the abortion issue, you either believe it is "wrong" or you believe it is not "wrong"... How is it ok to abort a fetus in "some" situations and not others... Most of you attempt to make the point that it is a "baby" regardless of whether or not it has been born... Beings you think that, is it ok to "kill" a baby after it is born ( after all it is the same to you) if it fits the criteria you set aside for giving the "ok" to abort a fetus.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlleonard View Post
    I do not believe any rights a fetus might have outweigh the rights of s woman who is a citizen of this country....
    So a woman should be able to abort a fetus (scientific way of saying "kill her baby") because she has the right to as an American? Up to what point? If it's got a heartbeat and breathing, I call it a "baby"...and I think it ought to have some rights, at least to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hlleonard View Post
    How is it ok to abort a fetus in "some" situations and not others... Most of you attempt to make the point that it is a "baby" regardless of whether or not it has been born... Beings you think that, is it ok to "kill" a baby after it is born ( after all it is the same to you) if it fits the criteria you set aside for giving the "ok" to abort a fetus.
    I'm not sure that it should be OK to kill a baby in any situation...even in cases of rape and incest. Comment was made above about punishing those that are guilty, not punishing an innocent child. I think there's some common sense in that. I realize that carrying a baby after being raped would be horrible beyond imaginable though...tough.

    Abortion is just a hard thing to debate...no doubt about it...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSplitshot View Post
    So a woman should be able to abort a fetus (scientific way of saying "kill her baby") because she has the right to as an American? Up to what point? If it's got a heartbeat and breathing, I call it a "baby"...and I think it ought to have some rights, at least to life.



    I'm not sure that it should be OK to kill a baby in any situation...even in cases of rape and incest. Comment was made above about punishing those that are guilty, not punishing an innocent child. I think there's some common sense in that. I realize that carrying a baby after being raped would be horrible beyond imaginable though...tough.

    Abortion is just a hard thing to debate...no doubt about it...
    --
    It is a tough issue, if you are the supreme court you are damned if you do and damned if you don't... A line has to be drawn somewhere and mostly I agree with the courts on this issue.... I don't believe there is a right and a wrong.

  4. #4
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    Difficult subject, I don't think there are any absolutely right answers. I would be interested to hear several women's views on the subject. After all, they have a much bigger role to play in the whole thing than men. I sometimes get the feeling that if men could get pregnant then you would find contraceptives much easier to come by and an abortion could be obtained as easily as a haircut. Anyway, my own view is a mix of those expressed already. In short: I do not like the idea of abortion as a method of contraception; I recognized that there are times when it is the most reasonable choice (e.g., life of the mother is at risk, rape, fetus is dead and will be stillborn); prefer the idea that it can be done safely; feel that it is a choice that should be made by those involved; and I have no desire to have my thoughts on this imposed on others. If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one and keep the government the hell out of the bedroom/doctor's office. It’s that simple.

    To me, part of the problem that there is such a gray area in terms of what constitutes human life. To some, the moment the egg is fertilized, it’s a baby. At the other extreme, it does not reach human baby status until it could exist outside the womb on its own. That is something that science has to be able to answer for us. For example, many eggs that are fertilized never attach to the uterus, so never become a fetus. But at what stage does the fetus possess those attributes that make it human? I don't know. To me, late third trimester abortion is wrong cause the fetus could survive outside the womb. If you gotta do it, the first month would be the time to do it.

    In cases of rape, the female should be offered the choice of the morning after pill immediately so that pregnancy can be taken off the table. I know some who would be against that. For anyone who feels that even in cases of rape, abortion should not be allowed, who should then be responsible for the baby? You going to force the mother to provide for it for life, give up much of her own life to do so, with the constant reminder of how that baby came to be? I certainly could not do that.

    Same for cases where the mother's health is at risk. I don't know about the rest of you, but if my girlfriend was pregnant and was informed that there was a high probability that she would not survive if she carried the baby to term, I sure as hell would not be trying to talk her into going through with the pregnancy.

    The other part of the equation, and one that should be considered more, is that of the female. As another poster indicated, if you advocate for no abortion, you basically put the rights of one individual (fetus) over the rights of another (the mother). I find that hard to reconcile in a free society. And what of the father? All too often in these cases the father just up and leaves. That is not right either. If you are to force a woman to have the child, then the man has to step forward and do his share of caring for and supporting the child.

    Andrew

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by apb View Post
    Difficult subject, I don't think there are any absolutely right answers. I would be interested to hear several women's views on the subject. After all, they have a much bigger role to play in the whole thing than men. I sometimes get the feeling that if men could get pregnant then you would find contraceptives much easier to come by and an abortion could be obtained as easily as a haircut. Anyway, my own view is a mix of those expressed already. In short: I do not like the idea of abortion as a method of contraception; I recognized that there are times when it is the most reasonable choice (e.g., life of the mother is at risk, rape, fetus is dead and will be stillborn); prefer the idea that it can be done safely; feel that it is a choice that should be made by those involved; and I have no desire to have my thoughts on this imposed on others. If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one and keep the government the hell out of the bedroom/doctor's office. It’s that simple.

    To me, part of the problem that there is such a gray area in terms of what constitutes human life. To some, the moment the egg is fertilized, it’s a baby. At the other extreme, it does not reach human baby status until it could exist outside the womb on its own. That is something that science has to be able to answer for us. For example, many eggs that are fertilized never attach to the uterus, so never become a fetus. But at what stage does the fetus possess those attributes that make it human? I don't know. To me, late third trimester abortion is wrong cause the fetus could survive outside the womb. If you gotta do it, the first month would be the time to do it.

    In cases of rape, the female should be offered the choice of the morning after pill immediately so that pregnancy can be taken off the table. I know some who would be against that. For anyone who feels that even in cases of rape, abortion should not be allowed, who should then be responsible for the baby? You going to force the mother to provide for it for life, give up much of her own life to do so, with the constant reminder of how that baby came to be? I certainly could not do that.

    Same for cases where the mother's health is at risk. I don't know about the rest of you, but if my girlfriend was pregnant and was informed that there was a high probability that she would not survive if she carried the baby to term, I sure as hell would not be trying to talk her into going through with the pregnancy.

    The other part of the equation, and one that should be considered more, is that of the female. As another poster indicated, if you advocate for no abortion, you basically put the rights of one individual (fetus) over the rights of another (the mother). I find that hard to reconcile in a free society. And what of the father? All too often in these cases the father just up and leaves. That is not right either. If you are to force a woman to have the child, then the man has to step forward and do his share of caring for and supporting the child.

    Andrew
    Pretty nice summation of my feelings also, Andrew. Well said.

    I usually take a firm stand on issues, but find myself being as another poster said 'wishy washy' on this one.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by apb View Post
    The other part of the equation, and one that should be considered more, is that of the female. As another poster indicated, if you advocate for no abortion, you basically put the rights of one individual (fetus) over the rights of another (the mother). I find that hard to reconcile in a free society.
    This is only true if one believes that the mother indeed has the right to abort her child.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcb View Post
    This is only true if one believes that the mother indeed has the right to abort her child.
    If you believe that the mother NEVER has the right to abort the child, even in cases of rape, incest, or where the mother's life is in danger, then what APB said is indeed true: you are subrogating the rights of the mother to the rights of the fetus.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadToad View Post
    If you believe that the mother NEVER has the right to abort the child, even in cases of rape, incest, or where the mother's life is in danger, then what APB said is indeed true: you are subrogating the rights of the mother to the rights of the fetus.
    Those situations account for a miniscule percentage of abortions, and I agree, are a somewhat different discussion.

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