Life after death, interesting read

[jcb]

So if I murder someone then I ask forgiveness on my deathbed then that is good enough? I can be the most evil person around but as long as before I die I ask for forgiveness then I'm good to go? I can't by that.

Jesus knew that this issue would pose a problem for folks. He addressed it with the parable of the workers in the field (Matthew 20). Reader's Digest version:

A landowner needs help in his vineyard and hires a bunch of laborers at 8:00am. He says I'll pay you dudes $20 a day. While those guys are working, he goes out at lunch and then again at supper and hires more guys.

At the end of the day, everyone lines up for their moolah. And it seems that everyone was hired at $20 a day, including the guys who came in at supper and only worked an hour or two.

The guys who worked all day said "Whoa dude, that ain't cool! We worked 10 times longer than those other slackers!"

The landowner said in reply, "Chill! Didn't I give you what we agreed upon? I want to pay the latecomers the same as you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my cash? Or are you jealous because I'm generous"?

This is where the "last shall be first and first shall be last" verse is found.

Turning away from sin though is not that easy is it? If we are all sinners wont be sinners for as long as we are on this earth?

The best way I can answer that question is this. Yep, all Christians wrestle against sin all their lives. Even Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament, wrote about a "thorn in his flesh" some scholars think was some sort of personal sin.

But here's the difference: Believers aren't sinners any more, they're children of God who still sin. My identity is not the same as it was, because it's no longer my identity, it's Christ's identity in me.

The life of a Christian is one of becoming more like Christ every day. If it's working the way it's designed to, every day we lose some of our own sin nature and take on more of Jesus's nature. Any good that I do is Christ in me, any sin I commit, it's my sin nature trying to stay alive.

It's a rough road at times, and sometimes it's one step forward and two steps back. But God promises that he will "continue the work he has begun" in those who believe in Him.

[Hlleonard]

If I am not correct please correct me. The Bible was written by men but supposedly it is Gods words. Who's to say its not like any other story that gets told by men or women. A cut finger will turn into an amputation the more times it gets told.

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That is true in most stories that get passed down from from our ancestors and as much as the bible has been re translated over the last few thousand years it is doubtful it even resembles the original context.
I personally believe most of the bible is legend that was passed down many years ago and was based on what the elders of the day believed to be true... Most of us know that legend tends to be rooted in the supernatural in a lot of cases.
Doesn't it seem odd that christianity as it is practiced in the U.S. originated in the part of the world that more and more of us are finding reasons to hate today... The middle east is a part of the world that doesn't have a lot of friends in this country yet christianity seems to be alive and well.... The folks in those countries have trashed the idea for something else but we still seem to think it is the only real truth.

[SLP]

So if I murder someone then I ask forgiveness on my deathbed then that is good enough? I can be the most evil person around but as long as before I die I ask for forgiveness then I'm good to go? I can't by that.

It is not some magic words that become a get out of jail free ticket. So if someone knew they were going to die, and just spoke something but it wasn't sincere then no. If however a person was truly convicted of his sins, realized he was lost and was genuine when he turned to ask God forgiveness and Jesus to save him then yes.

You see the way you framed the question, it sounds like a person just keeps that option in his back pocket as insurance. It is not exactly like that. It can't be mechanical with no conviction or not genuine. It is not words that save us, but rather truly understanding we are lost, understanding Jesus died for our sins, was buried and raised again, and by believing in Him and trusting Him to save us.

I knew people that were close to death, but sadly said, "I'm sorry, I just don't believe". If they were told, that doesn't matter just say these words that wouldn't have saved them

There is no qualification on our accounts, because were were 'better" or did more good than someone else. God is perfectly Holy. None of us can live perfect lives and earn our way into heaven. That is what Gods law shows us. God's law reveals just how much we can never measure up to God's standards. For myself, I know I could never keep God's law, and because of that, the law points me to the cross and the only way I can fulfill the law, by accepting the only One who could fulfill it- Jesus

[SLP]

What do you think about the timelines. According to the Bible the earth is around 6,000 years old but science says it is millions. How could this be possible? Also Noah's Ark carried 2 of each animal. Seems a little far fetched to me.

As far as the age of the earth. I don't really have any issue with believing it could be 6-7 thousand years old.

Look at it this way. When God created Adam for example, he was a man not a newborn. If somehow you could have seen Adam on day two he would have appeared as a grown man. Any scientist would say he has to have lived at least 25-30 years and all "evidence" would reflect that.

Well everything else IMO would be the same. There were full grown trees that were created, that IMO if cut down would have had rings for how old God chose them to be when he made them, just as Adam was a grown man. Similarly I believe that the mountains would have shown evidence of being what age God chose them to be.

However there is one verse that allows for the earth to be older, but yet not man.

Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; Genesis 1:14

We see here that was when our days night and years were established. Prior to that we can't know for sure whatperiod of time a day was. In 2 Peter 3:8 we learn that one day to the Lord is like a thousand years.

But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 2 Peter-3:8

Some things we just can't know for certain. I don't really have an issue trusting that God created may have everything in six literal days and when formed everything would appear as whatever age God intended them to be. Or everything created prior to day four when God gave us our time could have been much older.

[mperry]

I am a Christian and a believer, and I struggled with some of the same questions that I have read on here. Several things happened in my life that made me understand that I don't have the answers and in fact will never get them. I decided to have faith in what I am being taught and reading as truth and moved on from there. I really do think I have felt God in my life during some terrible times of need.

Believing in God doesn't mean you will not encounter troubles or hardships. It also doesn't mean that all your prayers will be answered to your liking either. Being a Christian also doesn't mean your perfect.... in fact it means you agree you are not perfect and are seeking help.

Also, I don't believe we could be who we are without God. I don't believe we were a little piece of life millions of years ago that has evolved into what we are today. I don't believe we have evolved from monkeys either.

Other Gods out there? Sure people believe that but maybe many of us are actually seeing the same God but just a different culture and their/our interpretation is lost in translation.

To me in the end if you have chosen to not believe and are wrong...well that would be a terrible mistake. JMO

I mean no offense by this but in your last sentence it sounds more like you are hoping you are correct than having faith. You are not the only person that I have heard put it like that either. I guess the way that I think is I am going to live my life the same as I have and God will decide what he wants done with me. My free will is always going to have doubt and I don't think anything anyone says will change that. I personally don't think anyone fully understands the Bible or the meaning of the words. Again if it is Gods words it was still written by man who has probably screwed it up somehow along the line. Also I still don't understand why God would not want us to know that He exists. I know people that will say they know for a fact that God exists. I'm sorry and mean no disrespect to anyone that feels this way but no one knows for a fact. There is only way to know this. People have faith that their is a God which I have no doubt but to hear some say they are 100% certain to me is false.

[DJD]

I mean no offense by this but in your last sentence it sounds more like you are hoping you are correct than having faith. You are not the only person that I have heard put it like that either. I guess the way that I think is I am going to live my life the same as I have and God will decide what he wants done with me. My free will is always going to have doubt and I don't think anything anyone says will change that. I personally don't think anyone fully understands the Bible or the meaning of the words. Again if it is Gods words it was still written by man who has probably screwed it up somehow along the line. Also I still don't understand why God would not want us to know that He exists. I know people that will say they know for a fact that God exists. I'm sorry and mean no disrespect to anyone that feels this way but no one knows for a fact. There is only way to know this. People have faith that their is a God which I have no doubt but to hear some say they are 100% certain to me is false.

No offense taken.....im just telling it like i see it, becoming a christian is a personal choice and when your ready you will find it was a good choice. Funny thing is you sound like me many years ago. Looking for reasons not to believe and trying your best to understand something this difficult. It's cool and we all go through it. There are many things to gain by going to a good church that has small groups or men's groups. You get to ask the kind of questions your asking and hopefully talk to some folks who have dedicated their lives to teaching and preaching the word of God.
It really is helpful to talk to a Good Pastor or leader of a church who understands where your coming from. They can answer these questions and concerns much better than me and I'm not so well versed in the bible as to have many of the answers. I will say this....not all folks who are in positions of leadership at churches are great teachers. It's like any other profession, job or leader....some are better than others.

[jcb]

I personally don't think anyone fully understands the Bible or the meaning of the words. Again if it is Gods words it was still written by man who has probably screwed it up somehow along the line.

The Bible has been poked, prodded, and examined under a microscope for centuries. Yes, there are some differences of opinion about a section here or there, or about interpretation, but if you take the earliest manuscripts we have of Scripture, today's Bible lines up to them remarkably well.

A lot of people say they "don't take the Bible literally." Well, no one should. To take something literally means you ignore metaphors, symbolism, exaggeration for effect and the like. Did Jesus really mean someone could swallow a camel? No. That was a metaphor.

The way the Bible should be interpreted is the same way any work of literature should be interpreted. It its entirety, and with the intent of discovering the author's meaning.

[mperry]

No offense taken.....im just telling it like i see it, becoming a christian is a personal choice and when your ready you will find it was a good choice. Funny thing is you sound like me many years ago. Looking for reasons not to believe and trying your best to understand something this difficult. It's cool and we all go through it. There are many things to gain by going to a good church that has small groups or men's groups. You get to ask the kind of questions your asking and hopefully talk to some folks who have dedicated their lives to teaching and preaching the word of God.
It really is helpful to talk to a Good Pastor or leader of a church who understands where your coming from. They can answer these questions and concerns much better than me and I'm not so well versed in the bible as to have many of the answers. I will say this....not all folks who are in positions of leadership at churches are great teachers. It's like any other profession, job or leader....some are better than others.

I dont think I'm looking for a reason not to beleive. I think I'm looking for a reason to beleive. And I agree with what you say that it is very difficult. I would say that is the reason I have doubts. I also am not versed in the Bible so I don't even try to understand it. I will say this. My Grandfather who died long before I was born could not read or write but according to my Mother he could quote the Bible. Was he able to do so just because of things he heard or was there something else. I have no reason to doubt my Mother and I see no reason for her to lie about it. Knowing this is what still has me at least partly beleiving that there is something else out there but I still have doubt. I have another question and maybe it is addressed in the Bible. Who created God? Did he just magically appear? If He created the Heavens and the earth where did he come before?

[jcb]

IWho created God? Did he just magically appear? If He created the Heavens and the earth where did he come before?

Totally laying aside any faith issues, and being totally rational, here's my view: The only rational explanation for the existence of the Universe is that there has to be something that is not bound by space or even time.

We have a bunch of stuff in the universe. It hasn't always been there. So either it was created by something that is not bound by space or time, or the laws of physics allow for all this something to be created out of nothing.

What theoretical physicists are trying to do today I find laughable. Trying to explain how "nothing" is not really nothing, but "something" that just looks like nothing. When the only observable "nothing" we have to deal with is the "nothing" we know after creation.

To me, it takes tons more faith to believe in that than it does to believe in God, who by definition is not bound by space and time.

[MLTSPCS]

Do me a favor next time you go fishing and just stop, look around, and listen. I personally just can't see how you could do this and not believe in something much bigger than mankind. And the part you guys are talking about being scared into believing by the can't-afford-to-be-wrong clause is being misinterpreted. What people are saying is that if I choose to live as a believer and strive to be more Christ-like and have higher morals/standards I hold myself to, what is the harm if I was wrong? However, if I choose not to believe and I am wrong, the consequences are eternal. And just looking at us humans, what it takes for us to live, breathe, learn, and so on, how could it all have just come together by an explosion? And where are the evolutionary in-betweeners if we got here from an amoeba or other simple life form? Adaptations happen. Show me one thing to prove evolution. I know I bounced around a ton, but I have so many thoughts on this subject it's hard to keep them all together. There are so many things I see, hear, and just experience every single day that make me believe in my Creator. When i get home from work today and my daughter looks up, smiles, says "Hi Daddy", and throws her arms around me, waiting to be picked up, well that right there is enough for me to know it didn't just explode into all this on its own. Just my $.01 Not my $.02 because I have tons more I believe and would like to say but I will leave it there for now.

[MLTSPCS]

Also for those that talk about 'religion.' Religion itself is man-made traditions, beliefs, and practices and is imperfect. There is a huge difference between man-made religion and a personal relationship with God through Jesus.

[mperry]

Also for those that talk about 'religion.' Religion itself is man-made traditions, beliefs, and practices and is imperfect. There is a huge difference between man-made religion and a personal relationship with God through Jesus.

I agree with this to a point. I think religion is man made. But how do you have a personal relationship with someone that is not there? I think through Faith you could have a relationship but it would not be personal.
I'm not really a beleiver in the big bang theory either. Truth is I have no idea how we came about. I guess that is just another mystery. I will say this and I'm not mocking religion at all but I don't beleive in bigfoot but if I am out hunting or fishing and it is getting dark and I hear strange noises or smell strange smells then I probably keep an open mind about him. At the moment that's something that I am feeling. Sitting at home watching TV then not so much. Of course this completely different that beleiving in Christ but still somewhat the same. I have lost loved ones and never blamed God for it. My wife went through a cancer scare and had her thyroid removed and some radiation. She is cancer free at the moment. There was also another person going through the same. Sadly they didn't make it. I don't think God has anything to do with who lives or who dies. My wife started attending Church and it makes her happy and feel better about herself. She thinks that since she started attending that God is helping her. I don't think so. I would not take the Faith away from anyone though. If it makes you happy and feel better about yourself then thats great. However I don't think that God actually works that way.