Chinese Threat in the South China Sea building

[kygorski]

A show of power.Of course it is, and they are not the first to do it. We are still choking on the middle east, and now some are beating the war drums again.One of the reasons were in debt up to our noses is being the world police force.And it's a volenteer police force, remember that. When the benefits of that system become so lean, what if it goes away?

[Moveon]

A show of power.Of course it is, and they are not the first to do it. We are still choking on the middle east, and now some are beating the war drums again.One of the reasons were in debt up to our noses is being the world police force.And it's a volenteer police force, remember that. When the benefits of that system become so lean, what if it goes away?

I've been thinking about this a lot lately as you can tell by all my posts about this South China Sea business.

You two are right it's about Power. Power to control the open Oceans. Since WWII the USA has been the dominate naval power in the world. But that's been changing ever since the ink dried on the surrender papers.

Russia has built up their navy since the end of WWII. They have recently been sending our more submarines into the world's oceans. And their air force has been flying and probing NATO"s boundaries as they did before the end of the Cold War.

Now China is building Aircraft Carriers with the money that we send to them while we run up a deficit. China is adding new nuclear submarines that have the ability to launch ICBM from the subs. They are growing their navy faster than ever.

We have agreements with Japan and the Philippines to protect them if they are attacked. We were thrown out of the Philippines and Japan has been wanting to get rid of our nuclear forces from their territory in the past. But they are more afraid of the Rise of the Chinese than they are of the USA. So now the Philippines have changed course and their supreme court recently voted to allow the USA to occupy some of the old military bases in the Philippines.

China is telling other countries including the USA that they can't fly or sail near their newly developed Island which are in International Waters. The Chinese are pushing out the other countries such as the Philippine fishermen and the Vietnamese fishermen to claiming all this new territory.

I'd be ok if the Chinese just used these new islands for civilian purposes but they are adding long range surface to air missile batteries and high tech radars on these islands which are thousands of miles away from main land china.

We still protect Taiwan with mutual aid agreements as China has threatened to invade Taiwan. We are pledged to protect the island of Taiwan.

Now I can see the point of not wanting to be the world's Police force. But who's going to stop other big countries like China as they expand their influence and push out other smaller countries in order to gobble up precious oil and natural resource that are abundant in the South China Sea? We are the only one capable of stopping China.

Now as to why we should stop China. If we don't stop them in the South China Sea they will take it over without a fight. But they will want more. They always to. Hitler promised he would stop after he took over the countries of Austria but he went on to invade Poland and other countries. He went after France, Holland and then attacked Russia and the British Isles. It took a World War to stop Hitler. And a Cold War to keep Russia from gobbling up Western Europe. Russia has invaded and taken over Southern Ukraine's Chimera.. This gives the Russians a year round warmer water port to the worlds Oceans. Now they are invading Syria and have established naval bases and air bases there complete with advanced surface to air missile batteries.

If we don't fight them over there we may end up fighting them over hear. To me this could be a valid argument.

I'd much rather see China contained to mainland China and not out in force roaming and trying to control the Worlds Oceans. To me that's our job. I'm very pro military and want a strong military which included a strong navy that is in control of the oceans. I'd rather see America doing that job that some other communist country like China or the Russians.

If we don't' maintain a strong military presence in the South China Sea the Chinese will. The Chinese want the entire sausage but they are smart enough to know not to take the entire sausage at one time. No they are taking slices off the sausage a little bit at a time. But before long they will have the entire sausage without even firing a shot.

I just read something yesterday and it made me stop and think. I'm not sure who said it or if it was true. But it was a story about a Chinese coast guard vessel going along side one of the 100 of small islands in the South China Sea and shooting civilian's that were on the island that was claimed by Vietnam. You see these small islands are claimed by multiple countries not just China. China is trying to pull a "Monroe Doctrine" in territory owned by others and if they get by with this who's next? If the story is true then China is the aggressor nation and needs to be stopped IMHO.

Diplomacy is not working so the US Military will have to use force if necessary.

[kygorski]

You want a military solution to a threat far from our shores? then petition [waste of time] congress to reinststute the draft. I'm sick and tired of police the world idea, it isn't working. You can't jam democracy down someones throat with a bayonet, it comes from whit in. First lets FIX america,and let the world fix world problems.By the way, none of these things will happen. Homo sapiens, lords of the universe, only flys mosquitos, and germs can kill us.

[Moveon]

You want a military solution to a threat far from our shores? then petition [waste of time] congress to reinststute the draft. I'm sick and tired of police the world idea, it isn't working. You can't jam democracy down someones throat with a bayonet, it comes from whit in. First lets FIX america,and let the world fix world problems.By the way, none of these things will happen. Homo sapiens, lords of the universe, only flys mosquitos, and germs can kill us.

It takes a Russian Submarine launched ballistic missile only 15 minutes to reach our shores. Your thinking is Pre WWII type thinking.

I'm not saying to force democracy on anyone. But I am saying we should prevent anyone else from jamming their way of life on others.

If we don't stay the policemen of the world then someone else will and I'd bet that you won't like that much either.

I understand the "Isolationist" view point but the world is a much smaller place these days. We didn't have super sonics jets and ballistic missiles on nuclear powered submarine in the 20th Century.

And you forgot cockroaches in your analog. Because after we destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons some day only the lowly cockroach and a few rats will survive.

You don't think that we should challenge China's power grab in the South China Sea when they have never been there before but we have? Obama and the US Government doesn't think that China has the right to setup an "EXCLUSION" zone in that area. You are aware that the Chinese on these islands are telling our pilots and our sailors to keep out of the area. China has no right to tell us what to do in international waters. These reefs are underwater at high tide and not recognized as Chinese territory by anyone but the Chinese.

We are baiting the Chinese to do some thing and start a shooting war but I seriously don't think that the Chinese will fall for the bait. They know that we can't stay there for very long and after we leave the area they can resume their control over these islands and thus the entire area around these islands.

Do you also think that we should have stayed home and not gone after Japan after Pearl Harbor? The Japanese were doing the same thing to us back in 1941. They were trying to keep the USA out of the Pacific as well as the British. We won't make that mistake again.

I will always want our country to have the best military in the world. Knowing how mankind is the Chinese or anyone else that gets too powerful will push further towards our shores if we let them. It may take them a while if we don't act but eventually if we don't counter their aggression and lies they will come for us.

I use to run software firewall that would show me the IP address and location of anyone sending data packets to my computer. Most of the data packets were from China. They were trying to hack into my computer. I made the mistake of talking about a relative who was in the navy and pretty high up. I figured that the Chinese thought they could find out about my friend though me and were doing their best to hack into my computer. This was many years ago. The funny thing is that nothing on my computer has anything to do with my friend and his work for the navy. But they didn't know that. Why else would I get hundreds of data packets sent to my computer from China.

Note: the Chinese stole the plans for our F35 fighter from one of our military contractors and have built a copy of it already. Russian and China are constantly probing our computer networks trying to get intel.

[waterdog101]

A show of power.Of course it is, and they are not the first to do it. We are still choking on the middle east, and now some are beating the war drums again.One of the reasons were in debt up to our noses is being the world police force.And it's a volenteer police force, remember that. When the benefits of that system become so lean, what if it goes away?

I've read where we spent over 4 TRILLION dollars in the middle east trying to change the lives of those folks, and it is as bad now or worse, than it was before we started trying to make changes over there. those millionaires in washington, wouldn't be so fast to stick there noses, in every little hot spot around the globe, if their sons and daughters wore the combat boots, like the poor folks kids do. those rich guys came up with the idea of a volunteer military, and paying the kids that volunteer, to do the fighting. they new there would be enough poor kids needing money, that they would volunteer and there rich sons and daughters, would be safe from having to strap on any combat boots. I wonder how large their volunteer military would be, if there was no pay that went with it, I think they should bring back the Draft, and let washingtons millionaires worry about their sons/grandsons and daughters draft number being called, then they would be slower to anger.

[Moveon]

Do you think it's OK that China is building up these small reefs into Islands and putting fighter jets on them along with surface to air missiles and then telling anyone in the area that is not Chinese to get out of the area? Is it ok for China to threaten our military ships and aircraft that have been patrolling these area for over 100 years?

We don't need a draft to get the Chinese off these islands. A few navy seals can get the job done.

And if we wait long enough China's massive CO2 emissions will continue to melt the glaciers even faster causing the sea levels to rise and flood these small islands that are barely above sea level. The first Typhoon that comes though that area will wipe out all the work that the Chinese did. But in the mean time they are interfering with trade in that area. The ice is melting faster than predicted already. The trouble with this is that the ocean will also flood low lying areas of the rest of the world.

[GeoFisher]

I've read where we spent over 4 TRILLION dollars in the middle east trying to change the lives of those folks, and it is as bad now or worse, than it was before we started trying to make changes over there. those millionaires in washington, wouldn't be so fast to stick there noses, in every little hot spot around the globe, if their sons and daughters wore the combat boots, like the poor folks kids do. those rich guys came up with the idea of a volunteer military, and paying the kids that volunteer, to do the fighting. they new there would be enough poor kids needing money, that they would volunteer and there rich sons and daughters, would be safe from having to strap on any combat boots. I wonder how large their volunteer military would be, if there was no pay that went with it, I think they should bring back the Draft, and let washingtons millionaires worry about their sons/grandsons and daughters draft number being called, then they would be slower to anger.

We will never know if the money spent was a good idea or not, OBAMA was dead set against anything Bush tried to accomplish.

Obama squandered the opportunities, in IRAQ, and Afghanistan, and Syria, and Libya.

His legacy will be the FAILED president that lost America.

The black lives matter movement is because Obama and his administration pushes racial hatred at every corner. Just today, the BLM movement shutdown a presidential candidate from speaking in Chicago. I never thought in a billion years, that would ever happen.

I'm utterly and thoroughly disgusted with everything associated with the DEMOCRAT party and their ideology......

* Blacks burn entire cities to the ground in protest of Police.........that is fine, let it burn.

* dozens and dozens of Police officers are TARGETED and murdered........that's fine, they are just blowing off steam.

* BLM protesters chain themselves together on highways and stop commerce for hours and days......

* They paint everything against their ideology as racist.

* They call the leading PUB a racist, yet for over 20 years, he's been extremely successful in hollywood, where they are absolutely disgusted by racists and homophobes. HM.....

[Moveon]

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;553774]We will never know if the money spent was a good idea or not, OBAMA was dead set against anything Bush tried to accomplish.

George Bush squandered the opportunities, in IRAQ, and Afghanistan, and Syria, and Libya.

His legacy will be the FAILED president that lost America.

Bush invaded Iraq instead of Afghanistan and failed to destroy all of Saddam's Soldiers and followers. They just took off their uniforms and hide their weapons for another day. Bush failed to find any weapons of mass destruction which is why he said he invaded Iraq in the first place. Failure Big time here.

All the Iraqi's did was wait until we left and then they started their civil war. Now Iraq's mess has spread to Syria.

And the Russians moved into Syria during Bush's watch when they started building the sea base there. Long before Obama was in the White House.

Now the mess that Bush started in Iraq is spreading though out the middle east.

I fear for the life of this country as we can't fight one country let alone several of them at the same time. Our military is not large enough to handle everyone in the world. But I think that we should build up or military and try to stay the biggest and baldest military in the World. Since so many country's now have nuclear weapons and missile technology and anyone of them could start WWIII and destroy the world, we are not limited to using only conventional weapons on a much smaller scale. But man's need to fight and miscalculation of other's intent can easily start a bigger shooting war.

We should have never allowed anyone to steal the nuclear war technology from us back in the 1940's. But it was just inevitable that other's would figure out how to make nukes.

This thread was started by me and it was about China's rise in power and how we counter that rise in Chinese military power in the open oceans. No one is going to invade China but I foresee China causing trouble in the South Pacific in the future.

[Moveon]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/03...cials-say.html

I'm wondering if the US had anything to do with the lost of this sub. If so we would never admit it. If not then good. I hope that North Korea loses more subs.

[Moveon]

http://www.14news.com/story/31444565...in-south-korea.

The Thadd missile is a anti ballistic missile missile that can shoot or knock the nuclear missile out of the air before it can hit it's target.

The USA is proposing putting some Thadd Missile systems in South Korea as the North Koreans brag about sending nuclear missiles to the USA to wipe out the USA and South Korea.

[kygorski]

So geo, I guess nobahma is the guy who started it all, with the "domino theory". How did that work out? Korea, stalemate. viet nam lost, panama, great win, we fed the loser for about 20 years.I don't even want to go into 'arab spring".We have military presence to some extent in 74 counties at present, not counting some nato, and seato bases. It's rumoured that even the pentagon isn't aware of all of them.I had the pleasure of spending 29 months and six days in germany[almost 3 weeks in the 98th field hospital], and got a chance to see a few others,also enjoyed an atlantic cruise. I'm sorry, we are NOT winning the hearts and souls of the world.