Annual resident park entrance pass

[idbefishing]

My answer to your question Mike is C. I don't mind if they raised it by a couple bucks, but a whopping 12 bucks caused me to said wtf? It has been at $24 for the last 3 yrs I think, so why all of a sudden now? Personally, I think the people with boat should only have to pay the launch fee. We're already paying for it with boat registration(lakes and rivers developement fee). Hunting and Fishing license money should be use for park operation cost. People without boat should pay an entrance fee. I wish America would stop going around the world wasting money policing peoples that don't give a damn about us and start padding our own azz first. Just think about it Ohio, they could have dig you an ocean to fish in with those money. If a lake is controlled by a federal agency (ie. USACE) use FEDERAL MONEY to maintain it. Wonder how Texas does it with all those lakes they have and no state income tax?

[Moose1am]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-06 AT 02:08PM (EST)[/font][p]From the users point of view the less expensive the entry fee is the better.

I guess the fees charge for any public facilty will depend on the cost involved in running the facility and who uses it.

Someone has to pay for the upkeep and such of any park. Whether it's the taxpayers of that area or the park users or a combination of both.

But most people would rather pay as low a fee as possible. IMHO.

[MikeAxsom]

I'm not sure where your reply needs to be placed in the mix, moose1am. I'm sure that at some level, we all enjoy feeling like we got something for nothing, or even a little more than we expected for what we paid. But on some other level of how we perceive value, I personally am less likely to compalign if I pay $15 or $20 for an excellent steak dinner, than I am to complaign about say paying $5 for a really bad one. Are you saying that peole who enjoy the outdoors would prefer to not have to pay for what it costs to have those services avaialble, or that they would just perfer that someone else pay for it for them?

[apextrail]

>No need to applogise to me.
>I don't work for the
>state. But I am curious
>about some of your points.
>Where does the data come
>from about the majority of
>border residents going to KY
>or OH for their recreation?
>If that point is substantiated
>and verifiable, it would have
>a large implication for Indiana.
>Do you know of a
>study which shows that result?
>
>
>On your other point, I assume
>you would not have a
>problem with Indiana finding a
>way to implement a new
>tax of some sort to
>replace the user fees for
>parks. Should that be an
>income based tax, an excise
>tax, a sales tax or
>what?
>
>When people travel to a park
>in say OH, and take
>the RV to camp, do
>you know if they normally
>stop near home to fill
>up with gas, buy groceries,
>bait, supplies, etc., or wait
>until they get to their
>destination to doo all that?
>This is one of the
>often cited issues in favor
>of low fees; as it
>is perceived that the added
>traffic is a boon to
>local business and workers, who
>in turn are pating the
>taxes to create the attraction
>that causes the increase in
>traffic. Is that trade off
>sustainable?

My data comes solely on observations from families that I have camped and fished with in Indiana for 20 plus years. I know it is a small section of border residents but we seem to bump into Indiana residents more frequently while at KY parks.After speaking with them a while, the majority of them are there for the same reasons that we are. My simple answer to a new tax is the state can squeeze some money away from pork barrel projects to fund what should be very important to all residents and not just a few politicians with a pet project that will benefit very few in the state. In response to your question regarding local revenues lost by people gassing up or buying groceries out of state, I would have to say that there is significant revenue lost in Indiana. I think my wife should have a vested interest in any Wal-Mart remotely close to a campground in KY !
Families spend a significant amount of their summer vacation money while camping or fishing. Families like mine split their vacation into "long weekends" and try to enjoy the parks and lakes throughout the summer. Just one mans opinion popular or not.

[MikeAxsom]

Thanks I appreciate having real input from the field. But your response does raise a few other questions too. When you said that hunting and fishing license money should pay for park operation costs, I assume you are only talking about IDNR operated parks and not county, city federal, etc. Have you made any kind of calculations to see what effect that might have on the cost of those licenses? I haven’t, and I can’t really guess what the end result might be; but on the surface of that idea I’m seeing another argument come up when people balk at paying for a $350 resident fishing license. Or did you mean to simply transfer some of the existing license fee money that now funds Fish and Wildlife and enforcement programs over to parks?

[jimmy701]

All I know is it costs me about a hundred bucks to go fish a lake that is less than 75 miles from where I live(for one full day).I go to this lake about 6 times a year.Thats not including tackle,poles,fishing licenses,plates,boat registration,and food for the day.For someone that doesnt make 20 to 25 dollars an hour it really hurts.Fishing is quickly becoming a rich mans sport.If I remember right,about ten years ago they raised camping fees and the next year closed down alot of the campgrounds.To me,it looks like all these raises in fees are in vain because I havent seen that much of an improvement at the places I fish.where is all this extra monies going to?These politicians that make these decisions probably dont even fish.And the ones that do are probably going out of state and paying some guide to take them,and staying in some fancy cabin on the lake.I just dont feel noone has the average joe fisherman in mind.

[idbefishing]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Or did you mean to simply transfer some of the existing license fee money that now funds Fish and Wildlife and enforcement programs over to parks?
---------------------------------------------------------------

So are you saying Fish and Wildlife takes up every pennies from the license fees? In the article explaining why they change from launch permit to boat permit, one of the reason is to cut down on staffing demand to check for launch permit. Wouldn't the same person check for entrance permit doing the launch permit check? They're cutting jobs and raised fees? And yeah, I'm talking about just IDNR properties only Mike. What y'all do with private, county properties is none of my concern.

[MikeAxsom]

I'm not sure exactly how each fund is used, but the theory has been that hunting and fishing license fees were are the funding source for fish and wildlife management. This goes through tyhe IDNR Division of Fish & Wildlife, with some going to Law Enforcement for that need. Other divisions get funds from various fees and taxes. I seem to recall that when I worked in Forestry in wildland fire control, a lot of our money came from part of the cigarette tax. How they made that connection I'm not sure.

I do know that the folks in the Fish and Wildlife Division are very protective of the license money being used for purposes that serve sportsmen. At least they know that the connection between license fees and the end user is an important one. I’d be real surprised if any of that could go over to the mostly non-hunting parks Division without a hum dinger of an internal fight. I also doubt if the parks are willing to share entrance fees wit the wildlife folks. Boating fees is a different story, as boats are used in all types of places, in all types of activities.

[Tackled]

I am not sure how this post became the Mike Axsom show. Nor am I sure why I am responding. However, I just cannot help myself this time (I admit to being anal retentive). I am from Ohio. Myself and five of my buddies used to be on a first name basis with the managers of the El Dorado Motel in Logootee, as well as the pizza parlor next door, the McDonald's at the junction of 50 and 231, and The Cabin (and numerous other businesses). I've forgotten most of those first names now, because of Mr.Axsom's "if you don't like it, don't come" approach. And for the record, I have never minded paying fees of any type as an out of stater.
Respectfully,
Mike Hodges

[MikeAxsom]

I don’t know how anything here would become the Mike Axsom Show. But I suppose this thread has taken on that appearance because I use my real name when I post. Other than that, I saw a discussion that I was interested in, jumped in and asked a few questions. Other folks then responded to those and a dialogue begins. I thought that was how these things were supposed to work. As for what you call my “If you don’t like it, don’t come” approach, I really fail to see how you or anyone else would prefer to be told “If you don’t like it come anyway”. And somehow through it all our park visitation level has set a record for each of the last 8 years and our budget has doubled in the last 10. Where we used to have 3 weekends per year with the campground at 100%, now we average 8-10. This year our revenue and activities level for Halloween weekend surpassed that of Labor Day weekend. And for the record, many local businesses report sales growth that seems to go along with ours. I’m thinking we must be doing something right.

[PL]

I wouldn't mind paying a little more for entrance fees if the money would stay in the DNR's hands but we all know it isn't. This is just another way for the state to get more money from us without calling it a tax increase.

Another thing, the boat or lake permit I believe is directed at those who come and fish tournaments and go through the gate before it opens up. Just wait till the CO pulls along side of them and asks where their lake permit is and alot of them(out of staters) won't know what he's talking about. Wonder if they'll get a warning or a fine? I can see some very pissed off folks in the near future.


Larry

[bkehl]

PL;
The Lake User Fee was brought on by the tournament fishermen that got fed up with paying to launch only to find out that after the tournament started, the attendant would pack up and leave which allowed others to launch for free, the new system makes it fair for all users. The new system even covers the boats that are docked on the lakes that never paid.