Senior Member
The energy non crisis
I've never really been on the off topic board much for certain reasons. I usually get on this site strictly for fishing because which is an escape for me from everything else. Since some of you guys on here seem very knowledgeable about the oil problems in America, I was curious as to what your opinions of this guys speech are. What he is saying does make since, unfortunately.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en
Senior Member
I stopped watching right after "there is enough oil on the North slope of Alaska to last America 200 years."Originally Posted by WacoWildcat
No one knows how much oil is up there. Anyone who can make a blanket assertion like that and present it as fact loses all credibility in my eyes.
Senior Member
jcb, you stopped watching too soon. This guy has an ever bigger political agenda then Moose does. Anyone, especially a supposed minister, that claims to have kept secret, for more than 25 years, something that will end the American way of life, is beyond belief. That is doubly so since he is now blaming Bush/Chaney for everything that happened during those 25 or more years that included seven different Presidents both Republican and Democrat. On top of that, he never did explain why he kept all of this information secret.
I agree that no one knows exactly how much oil we have within the U.S. boundries but his claim of enough to last 200 years in close to what I have read/heard in other sources.
Grumpy
Senior Member
Grumpy:
And you think you don't have a political Agenda when you go out and spread DISINFORMATION and GOP talking points saying that Global Warming is not real.
Hogwash. Global warming is real, it's happening now and Al Gore didn't make it up.
I'll be for legislation that will lower the cost of living. I want lower food cost and increased wages for the regular people.
I don't think it's right for CEO of major corp to be making 200 million dollars with bonus while others can't even buy their medicine or food.
And this gas crisis is killing this country. Cheney's secret energy meetings did nothing to help.
Senior Member
Moose, just for your information I AM NOT A REPUBLICIN -- I am an INDEPENDENT in my politics and, unlike you, in my THINKING!! Just becuase someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean that they are spreading HOWSWASH nor DISINFORMATION. Again for your information, there are millions of people that disagree with you AND AL GORE.
Grumpy
Senior Member
We know that Global warming is real.
Why are the polar ice caps melting?
Why are the Glaciers melting and leaving behind valleys that were once covered in tens of feet of ice?
Can you at least admit that the Glaciers are melting?
If not, that tells me that you refuse to see what is going on around you. And that's a shame.
The tallest mountains on earth are seeing their ice caps melt. There is less ice now than there was 30 year and 50 years ago.
Can you explain why the core samples of ice taken from some of the glaciers before they vanished showed an increase in CO2 content in their gas bubbles that correlates with increased industrialization of the Earth?
Disinformation is what the Fossil Fuel Energy Companies are all about these days.
We can't continue to grow this country when oil prices remain so high. And it's going to get worse if they run out of oil and prices continue to rise.
If we don't so something to encourage more research in to alternative energy source we are going to be very very sorry.
I'll tell you one thing. I don't support OPEC which is a Monopoly. I favor the break up of OPEC and I have been saying that since 1973.
This should not be a Dem Vs Rep thing. It should be a human struggle to survive issue. It should be a quality of living thing. It should be an American Thing.
It's a shame that some of the GOP Senators are so hard headed that they can't see the light in their eyes. Maybe it the payments that they get from the Fossil Fuel Companies. And if the Dems don't do something I'll be on their a(( too.
Senior Member
""This should not be a Dem Vs Rep thing. It should be a human struggle to survive issue. It should be a quality of living thing. It should be an American Thing.""
I agree 100%! We will never get where we need to be because of that problem. I'm just an average tax paying guy and the Democrats get me flustered with their cheap shots about the Republicans and I'm vary aware it works both ways. Neither party is 100% right but as a Country we are split due to unsavory political and business practices.
Senior Member
Probably so. Problem is, no one one has proved--frankly, CAN prove--that the recent rise in global temperatures is caused by man.
The Earth has always experienced periods of warming and cooling. 55,000,000 years ago, during what was known as the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), global temps rose by over 40 degrees F in only 10,000 years. There were no automobiles or factories back then, to state the obvious.
The whole continent of North America was once covered in ice. This fact dismantles the correlation you're trying to make.
Very easily. The Earth experiences natural rises and falls in CO2 atmospheric content. Has man contributed? Definitely. Can we say with any certainty that industrialization has caused global warming? Definitely not.
But here's where we might come together, Moose. Even though I doubt that global warming is man-made to the extent claimed, I think we should all act as if it is. Drive smaller vehicles. Carpool. Take public transportation. Use energy-efficient appliances.
The difference is, I want to choose to do it rather than have it forced upon me.
Senior Member
Probably so. Problem is, no one one has proved--frankly, CAN prove--that the recent rise in global temperatures is caused by man.
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You are trying to confuse the facts again. I said that Global Warming Was Real not that it was caused by man. Two very different things.
The earth is warming up. That's easy to prove. Recorded temperatures taken though out the world over the last 30 year show increasing average global temperatures. And if you look around at the melting ice it shows that the earth is getting warmer. Ice won't melt if it's getting colder. Ice Caps melt when the Earth warms up. Duh!
But the latter is also true. Man's activities are directly correlated to the warming trend since the industrial revolution. Ice core samples taken from the Glacial ice have been analyzed and shown to have increasing CO2 gas in the ice core as you get nearer the surface. The core samples are like tree rings in a way. The ice cores allow scientist to look back though time at the CO2 levels in the ice cores. The deeper you go in the core sample the older that ice is. That's because the oldest ice was laid down first and covered up by the younger ice.
Atmospheric Scientists have good data to show that mankind is creating the greenhouse gases.
Do you deny that we are burning more and more fossil fuels. Do you deny that the human population is increasing. Do you deny that we are running out of oil becasue we are using it fasater than it can be made?
Senior Member
Why are the Glaciers melting and leaving behind valleys that were once covered in tens of feet of ice? [/QUOTE]
The whole continent of North America was once covered in ice. This fact dismantles the correlation you're trying to make
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You are nuts if you think this statement dismantles what I was saying. That is plain nuts.
While the earth has been warming up over the last few thousand years you forget about the 1300 when the little ice age hit. That had a huge impact on human populations. I think that the plague wiped out 1/3 of the existing human population in that century.
Much of the ice that was in the glaciers was laid down during that last little ice age and that was only 700 years ago. Duh!
I am very much aware of the earth's historical cycles having studied the geological history of the earth from the Cambrian Time to present. I am aware of the fact of continental drift such. I spend an entire year studying the history of the earth. I am also aware of World History.
Your analysis is flawed in many ways. Your logic defies reasoning.
Bottom line if that during the Jurassic Period we didn't have 7 billion humans on this earth to protect. Yes the earth runs in cycles but it's also true that those time cycles are related to our orbit around the sun. Every ten thousands years the cycles has seemed to repeat itself. But the rate of change has never been so fast as it is to day. The rate of change in global average temperature was slow slow slow. It was not rapid like today.
The rate of change of temperature is the key. I am well aware that the ocean levels have risen and fallen by 100's of feet. I know that an inland sea formed over what is now the Midwestern USA.
And the vast majority of the Scientist on this planet are telling us that man's activities of burning thousands of tons of coal are effecting the atmosphere.
It's so obvious to anyone without a bias that it's like a giant zit sitting on your nose. It's impossible to not see the effects that man has on this planet.
And if that is not enough to convince you then I wish you could get a ride on the space shuttle and observe the earth from space. From there you can see the burning rain forests in South America.
It's only reasonable to figure out that if it took 200 million years to produce the coal and oil that's buried in the ground combined with the fact that we are burning up all that coal at an EVER INCREASING RATE that something has to give. Taking the trees down and planting more crops then burning them as fuel is going to increase the amount of Free CO2. You take all that Carbon that was tied up under the ground in the form of coal and then release it into the atmosphere in such a relatively short time period and there is no place for it to go. There's not enough algae in the waters or trees on the earth to use up all that excess CO2
And it's a PROVE SCIENTIFIC fast that CO2 gas in the air causes a green house warming effect.
To deny that scientific fast is not only a political mistake but it's fool hardy.
Senior Member
The whole continent of North America was once covered in ice. This fact dismantles the correlation you're trying to make.
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Wrong.. A false statement. The glacial ice did not cover all of the USA. It only came down to the middle part of INDIANA.
All one has to do is look at the geology of IN to see this. Turkey Run State Park was near the edge of the Glacial Ice.
Go back and study your geological History or find a google source that's no so inaccurate.
If Southern Indiana were covered by glaciers there would be scares on the bedrock where the glaciers moved over the area. There would be glacial tillage at the end of the glaciers edge where they melted and left huge boulders that had been tied up in the glacial ice and moved along with the ice and then deposited at the end of the glacier when it melted and started to retreat back North.
And then one more thing. I am sure that you have heard about the Famous North West Passage that never existed in modern times. It was only recently opened up allowing ships to sail though it the last few years. That is a direct effect of mankind's global warming.
You have not even begun to answer my questions about why the ice is melting.
Well I am going to tell you since you refuse to face the facts.
The Glaciers are melting and falling off of the Antarctic Continent because mankind is burning too many fossil fuels and warming up this plant's atmosphere. And the poles are the most impacted areas.
And the rate of increase is INCREASING faster than in recorded history.
You can take these facts too the bank!
Senior Member
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That guy in the video is a nut. No one knows exactly how much if any oil exists below the ground if they have not drilled test wells. From what I have read from Legitimate source (petroleum institute) there has only been one test well drilled near ANWAR and the results of that test well are Classified by the OIL COMPANY that drilled the well. They are not going to share that information with anyone. Not even the US Government.
Unless that idiot in the movie has X ray Vision like Super man he knows nothing.
He is just spouting of bs without any basis in fact. There may not be any oil under the ground in the small area of Alaska called ANWAR. There has been oil found on the North Slope of Alaska and the Oil companies can drill in this large area. Even then the North Slope is only a very small part of Alaska. And ANWAR is only 5 % of the North Slope Area.
So ANWAR is a tiny fraction of the State of ALASKA and it has been set aside as a animal wildlife refuge. Only a very tiny fraction of the land in the USA is set aside for the Wildlife. And what's protected should remain protected for all times to come.
The oil companies have many many many other areas to drill for oil. They need to keep their greedy little paws of of ANWAR. They only want it because they can't have it and they always get their way.
Some xperts have stated that there is no oil there, or at least not enough to make a dent in our consumption. Our consumption of oil is so huge that it's creating the majority of our problem. Wait until the world human population doubles. And as China and India grow and modernize the demand for oil with increase tremendously.
Only two things will stop the increase in demand for oil. Alternative energy source or war to control the human population.
In the past war has always controlled human population levels. But today with the threat of nuclear wars the human population has grown where we only fight small wars now days. We have not fought a global war since 1945. The wars we have fought have lower the human population to a degree but they have only been what's called "Police Actions". Korea and Vietnam were more limited scale wars and not fought all over the globe.
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