Stonewall, at the risk of starting a mutual admiration socieity, I'll just say: WELL SAID!!
Grumpy
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Stonewall, at the risk of starting a mutual admiration socieity, I'll just say: WELL SAID!!
Grumpy
I agree, thats pretty interesting about the Al Gore book....might need to read that one.
The technology does not exist to create a battery (fuel cell) that can perform at the levels required by the average US driver, let alone someone who tows something, say a boat. The only possible alternative to the "Battery Car" is the hydrogen fuel cell, but that to is not feasible in today's environment.
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What to prove this statement? I guess if you say this it's true, Right? Somehow I doubt this.
Fuel cells are now being used to power submarine around the worlds ocean. And Honda already has a production fuel cell powered vehicle now.
Get out of the way Fossil Fuel as the Fuel Cell Powered cars are going to be here.
As for your ignorant statement that electric cars can't pull thinks like a boat. What the Heck do you think is pulling those 100 car long coal trains across the USA. Diesel/Electric Locomotives.
Fuel Cells can power electric engines that can easily pull a boat. If they can pull a train they can easily be made to pull a boat.
Electric engines are 100's of times more efficient than gasoline engineers. They don't lose as much heat as a gas engine does.
Check out the Honda fuel cell powered cars that are on the production line today.
Chances are that today the Indy 500 was won by a Honda Powered Race Car.
2) Hydrogen is highly volatile. For proof of this one has to simply watch the old news reels of the Hindenburg disaster. Containing hydrogen, a gas, is quite difficult, especially under pressure. One tiny spark or collision and BOOM! No survivors. The amount of engineering required to design and produce a safe hydrogen fuel-cell would probably put the cost of one of these "wonder vehicles" out of reach for most Americans. Personally I don't like the idea of toting my family around in what amounts to a car bomb.
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While it's true that Hydrogen will burn, it's also true that Gasoline will burn as well. Both are volatile.
Now if the Hindenburg was filled with Gasoline it would not only not get off the ground but it would have burned hotter than the H2 filled Blimp.
So using the Hindenburg is a red Herring in a way. No one is proposing fuel celled powered cars that carry the hydrogen in a blimp! :(
Hydrogen tanks are being used all around the world today in a safe manner.
Now I do agree that there is a danger but it's not as unsafe as gasoline.
I have worked with hydrogen tanks for years and never had any problem. In fact I use to haul tanks of hydrogen up the stairs to the Penthouse on top of the Civic Center in Evansville, IN every month.
Fuel cell powered cars can have smaller well protected tanks to carry the hydrogen. The Delorian use it's frame to protect the gas tank. I would think that the hydrogen tank could be put inside the framework of the vehicle to safely protect it in case of a collision.
How many times have you see one of the gasoline powered cars go over a cliff and catch on fire in the movies?
We carry Hydrogen on rail cars all over the United States and when have you see one blow up?
And fuel stations can be built all around the country using solar panels to provide the energy to make hydrogen.
Again look at the Honda Web site for more information on what's going on Today,,, right now! in California.
People that get on the Internet and try to put down Solar and fuel Cell powered transportation should rethink that they are doing to this country.
And as far as the reliability of fuel cell powered engines. They put them inside SUBMARINES these days. Submarines that can travel for 30 days submerged under the ocean and travel for thousands of miles using only Hydrogen Fuel Cell Power. Now would they use Hydrogen in a submarine if it were not safe? I don't think so.
Oh yea. The price of the Honda Fuel Celled Car will be lower that what the profit of doom above said. The Honda Hybrid is only $1,800 more than a non hybrid Honda car. Honda will make sure to keep the price down in order to market these vehicles. And with mass production the prices will drop down to a much lower cost.
Guess what? Right now you and your family are touring around in a fire bomb. Remember the Ford Pinto?
Having been on a fire dept for over 10 long years I have seen my share of Cars on fire.
Gasoline when spilled will flow on the ground while Hydrogen can disperse though the air. Since people live and travel on the ground that makes gasoline much more dangerous to them when it's burning along the ground.
But you have made a point that I agree with. We must do more to protect the fuel that's carried in passenger vehicles.
I would like to see the Honda Fuel Cell powered car put the hydrogen tank in the middle of the chassis not at the back end. But that is not a show stopper.
I'd rather have a fuel cell powered car that has a very slight risk of fire if hit from behind or in a major accident than have to walk.
The Major benefits of Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars far exceed the detriments.
You take any automobile that has a tank of gas and run it off a large cliff and it's going to be dangerous when the vehicles hit the ground. It won't make any difference if it's carrying compressed hydrogen or liquid gasoline.
We could never get to the moon if not for the liquid hydrogen and oxygen used to power those rockets.
[QUOTE=Stonewall2002;As far as your idea of putting a high speed "fuel cell" motor on your boat. well I hope you drive a barge because the weight and amount of space requited is not proportional to the power you get out of one with today's current technology.
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Today and since 2006 the size of a fuel cell will fit comfortable in the modern day vehicles. They are smaller than a V8. And that includes the electric Motor used to drive the wheels. The battery is small enough to fit under the seats.
Fuel cell size has been reduced tremendously with the use of flow though technology.
Meet the vehicle of the near future:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
[QUOTE=Moose1am;327944][QUOTE=Stonewall2002;As far as your idea of putting a high speed "fuel cell" motor on your boat. well I hope you drive a barge because the weight and amount of space requited is not proportional to the power you get out of one with today's current technology.
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Today and since 2006 the size of a fuel cell will fit comfortable in the modern day vehicles. They are smaller than a V8. And that includes the electric Motor used to drive the wheels. The battery is small enough to fit under the seats.
Fuel cell size has been reduced tremendously with the use of flow though technology.
Meet the vehicle of the near future:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/[/QUOTE]
Moose............I'm sure by now you realize the education level your dealing with with some of these fellows. You have way to much college education for these guys. Some will never understand anything you say since they are loyal bush/fix news/oil company apologists. Good news is I caught one 16" crappie and 2 15 1/2" crappies this past sat above walls ramp and you should know where since it's one of my favorite places. Caught them and many more on a small suspending crankbait fishing it real real slow near flooded grasslines and brush. 4 cranks and then pause for 3/4 seconds and then repeat. Black back/chartruese sides with black stripes/orange belly. Bait ran right at 3' to 4' right where most were suspended. Went out at 5:30am and came back around 4:00pm. Stopped at Poor Boys that morning and put $60 dollars in the boat and got under 15 gals.($4.09) Before dumbya was appointed I could get the same amount of gas for $20. Things sure have changed since 2000 and most have not helped the working class in this country. Lake sure wasn't crowded where I was fishing and that was sat. and sunday. High gas prices are hurting many many businesses as well. Main lake wasn't crowded either when I drove back to the camp both days. All the big crappie I caught this weekend were still full of eggs. Water temp did get to 70 on top late sunday afternoon. Some fish I caught on jigs 6'/8' deep were cold. This next week should really have them moving shallow and I'll hit the same areas next weekend. Come up if you get the time and fish with me. No sense in hauling your boat up mine has plenty of room and the gas is on me.
Take care.........Larry
Moose you called in the Calvary huh? PL? He should know that women and children huddle in the middle when the men are trying to work things out. Man, as always a quick drive by comment from PL and then off to the Kool Aid stand....
Did PL join us in here? He has been absent from here for a while.
Larry's smart. He knows that arguing with people is a waste of time for the most part. So he pops in says his peace and then splits for Patoka Lake or to go to Work.
He works 6 days a week and does not have time for too much foolishness.
But I didn't call in Larry. Heck the last time I talked to him he was out of town on the road and on his way to a job site when he called me on his cell phone just to chat for a few minutes. When we chat it's about fishing not fishin.com.
I use to not come into the offtopics forum because of all the BS that goes on in here. But the topic of global warming is important and needs to have the facts aired. I did that. Now I can get back to work and fishing hopefully.
[QUOTE=DJD;328058]Moose you called in the Calvary huh? PL? He should know that women and children huddle in the middle when the men are trying to work things out. Man, as always a quick drive by comment from PL and then off to the Kool Aid stand....[/QUOTE]
Hey Moose I was just digging at you and PL. I could go on and on about my views as you could and we would still disagree on several issues....and that's fine with me. I just try and not get personal since it's not necessary nor fair.
As I said before I enjoy another man's opinion and anothers man's view on these topics. I'm sure we all agree that when fishing none of this matters. HAGD