West Boggs

[TR21Bassin]

Small Boat Basser,

I understand what your saying about the clubs having the "illegal tourneys", however if that was the biggest problem you would still catch a lot of small fish. I can't remember the last time I was at Boggs and caught more than 1-2 short fish. Usually everything you do catch is a keeper.

This tells me that a lot of small fish are being taken out as well. And small fish do not help the tourney anglers at all.

If you know of clubs having illegal tourneys than turn them in. Me personally I don't know of any having illegal tourneys at Boggs but I don't fish club tourneys. But if I did hear about it I would definitely not have a problem with turning them in to West Boggs Park.

Charlie

[small boat basser]

Small Boat Basser,

I understand what your saying about the clubs having the "illegal tourneys", however if that was the biggest problem you would still catch a lot of small fish. I can't remember the last time I was at Boggs and caught more than 1-2 short fish. Usually everything you do catch is a keeper.

This tells me that a lot of small fish are being taken out as well. And small fish do not help the tourney anglers at all.

If you know of clubs having illegal tourneys than turn them in. Me personally I don't know of any having illegal tourneys at Boggs but I don't fish club tourneys. But if I did hear about it I would definitely not have a problem with turning them in to West Boggs Park.

Charlie

I agree with what you're saying Charlie. I'm not saying they're (illegal tournies) the biggest problem, just that they are contributing to the decline. No small bass means no recruitment, and that is most likely due to the shad. Harvest by meat eaters is probably shaving off the 12"-16" fish population, though the surveys show that that has dropped by a bunch over the years. Tourney anglers are just removing some of the larger remaining bass. All of it works against the fishery to make it fail faster.

As for turning them in, it is one of those deals where I'm not hearing about it myself until well after the fact. You run into a buddy at the lake, start chit chatting about where they've been fishing tourneys this year and it comes up in conversation. Nothing you can do about it then. As idbefishing alluded to, you need to catch them in the act to enforce something like that, otherwise it is just one persons word against someone elses without definitive proof. Turning in a name(s) would do no good because they're illegal in the first place - not like they're on the current tourney list or applying for permits
for future tourneys. Much easier just to schedule the tourney whenever and keep runinng them this way.

I actually posted about this on the board a couple months ago in conversation. If Mike/W. Boggs chooses to follow up and try and crack down on this, that is their choice. Not sure it could even be legally stopped in the first place. I'm not looking to get anybody in trouble, merely pointing out that the bass anglers are quick to point fingers and complain, but it's some of their own that are making an existing problem worse.

[Stevens]

"This tells me that a lot of small fish are being taken out as well. And small fish do not help the tourney anglers at all."

Maybe im wrong, but i dont think they are surviving very well because they have no grass to hide in and they have to compete pretty heavily with shad and sunfish for forage. They definatly could be illegally harvested also but i think theres other problems too that are pilling up.

[Stevens]

haha you stole my thoughts small bass boater, but hey you said it better anyway

[cbass]

west boggs is and extremely productive lake dominated by gizzard shad. Bass in very productive shad lakes suffer from poor recruitment. That's why you don't catch small bass and the lake gets drained every 10 years. Too many shad equal poor bass recruitment, but great growth.

[MikeAxsom]

west boggs is and extremely productive lake dominated by gizzard shad. Bass in very productive shad lakes suffer from poor recruitment. That's why you don't catch small bass and the lake gets drained every 10 years. Too many shad equal poor bass recruitment, but great growth.

Cbass has this one correct guys. The decline in Largemouth recruitment was inevitable the moment Gizzard Shad were returned to the lake. Yes, there are still illegal tournaments going on, and yes that is a form of poaching that all sportsmen should refuse to tolerate. But West Boggs is productive enough to absorb a lot of harvest. What it can not tolerate is Gizzard Shad. We have been over and over this issue for the past 8 years. During that Time I have been taken to task repeatedly for stating what all managers believe; that this and other Gizzard Shad introductions are deliberate and are done by misinformed people who think it will make more forage for bass and better fishing. I have told this forum all this probably a hundred times in that 8 years.

We have been drawing the lake down each winter for those 8 years, as part of a study with DNR to see how effective induced winter kills might be in management of Gizzard Shad. That study is scheduled to run through 2010. After that I hope to be able to convince DNR to invest in another total renovation. The key to selling that idea is you folks. As long as it is apparent that the angling community refuses to accept what they are being told about the inappropriateness of having gizzard shad as forage in warm shallow water reservoirs in this region, the present thinking is that a renovation would be a waste of money. All it takes is one idiot with some bad information and a little ingenuity, and the whole problem will start all over again.

If serious anglers really want to do something to improve fishing in our state, jump in this on the right side and help us kill the shad=big bass myth. The money saved battling this stupidity is actually your own.

[bmck25]

Cbass has this one correct guys. The decline in Largemouth recruitment was inevitable the moment Gizzard Shad were returned to the lake. Yes, there are still illegal tournaments going on, and yes that is a form of poaching that all sportsmen should refuse to tolerate. But West Boggs is productive enough to absorb a lot of harvest. What it can not tolerate is Gizzard Shad. We have been over and over this issue for the past 8 years. During that Time I have been taken to task repeatedly for stating what all managers believe; that this and other Gizzard Shad introductions are deliberate and are done by misinformed people who think it will make more forage for bass and better fishing. I have told this forum all this probably a hundred times in that 8 years.

We have been drawing the lake down each winter for those 8 years, as part of a study with DNR to see how effective induced winter kills might be in management of Gizzard Shad. That study is scheduled to run through 2010. After that I hope to be able to convince DNR to invest in another total renovation. The key to selling that idea is you folks. As long as it is apparent that the angling community refuses to accept what they are being told about the inappropriateness of having gizzard shad as forage in warm shallow water reservoirs in this region, the present thinking is that a renovation would be a waste of money. All it takes is one idiot with some bad information and a little ingenuity, and the whole problem will start all over again.

If serious anglers really want to do something to improve fishing in our state, jump in this on the right side and help us kill the shad=big bass myth. The money saved battling this stupidity is actually your own.

Hi Mike,

Just a few questions here. By total renovation do you mean draw the lake down and treat the lake with retonone? Is it possible to treat the lake every 3-4yrs with retonone at a level that is leathal to shad but leaves other game fish unharmed? And would stocking the lake with a larger predator fish like musky help control the shad population? I believe this is the approach the DNR took with Waveland and it appears to be working thus far. Although the shad do seem to be more and more abundant each year.

Also, do you believe the shad were reintroduced by some "do-gooder" or do you think they were leftovers from the previous renovation?

BK McKenney

May the holes in your net be smaller than the fish in it.

[MikeAxsom]

Yes, that is what I mean by total renovation.

Yes, it is possible to use low-dose piscicides that are somewhat shad selective due to application levels. But because it is possible does not mean it is practicle or cost effective. This process is being used for gizzard shad study as well as other porcesses, such as our winter drawdown here.

Yes, stocking a large preditor would help control shad populations, but again the leve of control and the cost effectivness of that has not seemed to work out well so far. Prior to the 1994 renovation, West Boggs was home to a sizable population of wipers. The shad numbers may be been lower then than now, but not enough to offset the need for the renovation.

I think the shad at West Boggs were reintroduced as an intentional illegal stocking. Several tips received independantly over a few years time indicated a small group of bass anglers from an area south of the lake. Nothing was produced to take that case to court, but if it had been we were prepared to file a civil suit for damages that would have ran into the millions of dollars. It was, and still is, my opinion that one such suit against an individual or individuaals that took everything they owned would get the right message out about this issue.

The lake was shad free from 1994 thru 1999 in annual fishery surveys. They came from outside.

Hi Mike,

Just a few questions here. By total renovation do you mean draw the lake down and treat the lake with retonone? Is it possible to treat the lake every 3-4yrs with retonone at a level that is leathal to shad but leaves other game fish unharmed? And would stocking the lake with a larger predator fish like musky help control the shad population? I believe this is the approach the DNR took with Waveland and it appears to be working thus far. Although the shad do seem to be more and more abundant each year.

Also, do you believe the shad were reintroduced by some "do-gooder" or do you think they were leftovers from the previous renovation?

BK McKenney

May the holes in your net be smaller than the fish in it.