A question of values.......

[Hlleonard]

On May 22, I had a serious vehicle accident in which the truck rolled 5 times and I was trapped for around 45 minutes, hanging upside down by a seat belt, in a truck that was upside down. God didn't cause the accident and neither did I, so who should I blame for all these injuries, including both broken feet? The accident reconstructionist, insurance adjuster, and MS State Trooper said they think the tandem brakes locked up on a U-Haul trailer that I was pulling causing it to jackknife, when I hit a dip in the road. My truck rolled down a steep embankment and into a ravine that took the wreckers almost 3 hours to pull it out. I will NEVER blame God and am not ashamed to tell you that, while the truck was rolling, I was screaming to the top of my lungs, "Jesus, help me." HE DID! and I am alive to tell it. The State Trooper called me and said he didn't see how I could still be alive. One week later, a lady had an accident at the same place and was killed.

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The faith a person holds in whatever deity they believe in seems to go a long way in improving their lives and in a lot of cases it even makes them a better person,that is not always the truth as we have seen in the terrorist activity connected with the muslim faith and chriatianity during the witch hunts... For you to need your god after the accident would seem to say he was asleep at the switch in his duties to look after you before the accident... If you can be grateful to your god for saving you then you must blame him for allowing the accident to happen in the first place... We are biological creatures and regardless of what we like to believe we aren't all created the same as in Mr. Smith's case, he seems to have some monsters in his life he has to deal with that others of us don't... I have a daughter with disabling birth defects that she has dealt with the entire 40 years of her life, she doesn't blame a god or anybody else for her problems,that's just the way it is.

[bassin_bug]

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The faith a person holds in whatever deity they believe in seems to go a long way in improving their lives and in a lot of cases it even makes them a better person,that is not always the truth as we have seen in the terrorist activity connected with the muslim faith and chriatianity during the witch hunts... For you to need your god after the accident would seem to say he was asleep at the switch in his duties to look after you before the accident... If you can be grateful to your god for saving you then you must blame him for allowing the accident to happen in the first place... We are biological creatures and regardless of what we like to believe we aren't all created the same as in Mr. Smith's case, he seems to have some monsters in his life he has to deal with that others of us don't... I have a daughter with disabling birth defects that she has dealt with the entire 40 years of her life, she doesn't blame a god or anybody else for her problems,that's just the way it is.

You have taken what I said and twisted it so badly that it is unrecognizable. There is no reason for me to explain it again because you still won't get it. 'Nuff said.

[RoadToad]

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you are correct, I have never read that... Which version of the king James bible is that written?... There are several versions of the same bible I believe... Most folks including christians will quote that as "Thou shall not kill".

It's called the "New King James Version." And yes, most people quote it that way, because the King James has for a long time been the only version most people ever saw. But you have to remember that the Bible was not originally written in English; in fact English did not exist back in the first century. Exodus was originally written in Hebrew. Also the meanings of both Hebrew and English words can change over time, so it can be difficult to decipher exactly what was meant at the time of writing. But today the most widely accepted translation of the sixth commandment as it was written in Hebrew is, "Thou shalt not murder."

[Hlleonard]

You have taken what I said and twisted it so badly that it is unrecognizable. There is no reason for me to explain it again because you still won't get it. 'Nuff said.

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Maybe taking part in a debate isn't wise if you are offended by other folks point of view... I apologize... You have a nice day.

[Hlleonard]

It's called the "New King James Version." And yes, most people quote it that way, because the King James has for a long time been the only version most people ever saw. But you have to remember that the Bible was not originally written in English; in fact English did not exist back in the first century. Exodus was originally written in Hebrew. Also the meanings of both Hebrew and English words can change over time, so it can be difficult to decipher exactly what was meant at the time of writing. But today the most widely accepted translation of the sixth commandment as it was written in Hebrew is, "Thou shalt not murder."

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That is the first time I have read that containing that wording... That would seem to put a different light on it.

[RoadToad]

I should have said the most widely accepted by biblical scholars, because it's true that most of the public would still quote it as "Thou shalt not kill."

[greenriverman1]

Good question....I don't know squat about Mormon's or their religion either one. I'd be curious to read Geo's thoughts on this, most especially since he comes from a Mormon up bringing. How about it Geo?

As from having a bit of a Mormon background myself if I hear Geo correctly he has expressed that he does not BELIEVE that the Mormon religion and it's teaching are true. It could have been from past seeds that had been sown by his teacher or fellow students or anything else but that does not matter to me. I do not claim to know why.

When I look up the word faith I come up with the definition ;belief that is not based on proof. Perhaps you just do not have the faith (proof) to believe.

Geo gives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith as proof. Is this proof? I hear and read bad talk about wikipedia. But I have no proof!

I just know that we all have to make up our own minds about what we believe and when it comes to Religion I for one am not going to tell Geo or anyone else if they are right or wrong. Their life might depend on it.

Geo I did not open this can of worms. I hope that no offense is taken by you or anyone.

[GeoFisher]

Absolutely no offense taken......I believe but just not the way I was raised. I have faith in what I believe. It may be right, it may NOT be right.

In this post, I was really looking for WHAT influences have been most important in someone's life. Parents, Teachers, God, Faith??........what.

I think in my particular case it was a combination of my Mom's Mormon values, and my dad's 30 years as a military man. Right from WRONG was instilled at an early age. Christian/Mormon values were instilled at a very early age. RESPECT..again early age....Hard work and the value of a dollar.........early age.

So, by the time I was ready to have a family and pass on my values, I had a pretty dang good system to pass on.

Now I will be the first to admit that I don't believe either of my brothers or my sister have passed on what I would consider good values, and certainly not what they were raised with. I wonder why. What conditions or situations lead to this....economics, bad times, poor decisions.......loss of a loved one......What?? Maybe I am smarter or work harder at it....Maybe I see my daughters as a direct reflection on me.....I don't know.

And I'm throwing this out there....and I don't really believe this is a contributing factor......BUT I'm the only conservative thinking member of the bunch. Everyone else is left to extremely left leaning.....and I don't understand that either, because we were certainly raised with a value system that is polar opposite of that chain of thought.

Later,

Geo

[jcb]

No I am not a fair weather Christian. Even when I did go to church for a year, was baptized and such I had 3 surgeries during this time. It was not like all was well so I went to church then it went bad so I quit going to church. Like I said I thought "maybe" the fact that I was not going to church and believing was the issue but found out it did not matter for my health was still the same. If that was the case I could say I have not been in the hospital for 7 months now and hopefully I will make it to November which would make it 9 months which is the longest I have been out of the hospital in 6 years. So I guess not going to church is the answer.

Elwood, while this is a very common thought process, it is totally off-track from a biblical perspective.

Despite what all the TBN televangelists would have us believe, God has never promised us an earthly reward for faith. As a matter of fact, he promises the opposite. In 2 Timothy the Christian is actually promised persecution.

What God, through Christ, has promised is that when the Christian suffers, God's comforter, the Holy Spirit, is available. Paul referred to the "thorn in his flesh" that constantly tormented him; but in Romans 5 he says "we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us."

This perspective on human suffering also addresses your question about "why does God let this happen". I believe that you and I have pain and suffering in our lives because we, as a race, chose to separate ourselves from God through Adam and Eve. Their pride led them to sin. God, being holy and just, couldn't just look the other way, so mankind was cursed. But God, also being loving and kind, provided Christ as a way to make it right.

Once you look at suffering as something we deserve, which I do, God's mercy takes on a whole new light.

One of my favorite preacher/teachers, John Piper, said "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." I pray that you, I, all of us can be content and satisfied with God and rest knowing that He is enough.

[apb]

...In this post, I was really looking for WHAT influences have been most important in someone's life. Parents, Teachers, God, Faith??........what....

In my case, parents. Both parents took an active role in my life. Taught right from wrong, respect, work ethic, etc. from a young age. Two brothers, one much more conservative than me, the other more liberal than me. Both raising their kids with the same values that we were taught at a young age.

Andrew

[mhall]

In my case, parents. Both parents took an active role in my life. Taught right from wrong, respect, work ethic, etc. from a young age. Two brothers, one much more conservative than me, the other more liberal than me. Both raising their kids with the same values that we were taught at a young age.

Andrew

More LIBERAL than you, OMG.................lol, Just teasing Pal......

I'm, about ready to do that walk again....

[elnutsmalljaws]

The older I get the more literal I become. If I can't see it feel it touch it smell it then it does not exist. Pretty much any religion boils down to FAITH. Faith that the Bible is real, faith that the words written in the Bible are how we should live our lives, faith that when the pine box lid is shut that it is only shut on your body and not your soul. For me faith is a word that I pretty much don't have. Hope is a word that I can associate with. I hope I don't get sick, I hope no infection this time, I hope we can get our bills paid this month, I hope all these collection agencies for the $110,000 we owe in doctor bills will forget my phone number. I don't leave the hospital and listen to the nurses on the 5th floor isolation area when they say good luck. I say there is no luck and if there was mine is bad and fully expect to be back in the hospital before the week is up. Happened way too many times. 27 surgeries, 511 days in the hospital, collapsed lungs, staff infections, wound infections, impacted bowels, 17 hernia surgeries where they found 43 hernias, 15 endoscopies currently gallstones kidneystones torn rotator cuff 2 torn tendons and ligaments in same left shoulder with blown rotator cuff and right knee so bad that orthopedic said nothing can be done because too young for knee replacement and no amount of surgery will help my knee. Hard to have faith when EVERYTIME you turn around you are getting kicked in the gut literally and physically. I look at 2 guys I grew up with. Same middle class upbringing same not going to church but neither of them have the physical problems I have neither of them have the bad luck that I do and both of them say mo wonder my faith is lacking. My wife sees on a daily basis at what I go thru physically after I mow the lawns that I do every week. This money is the only money keeping our noses above water and barely at that. I hear the lord will provide and he won't put more on you than you can handle and what does not kill you makes you stronger BLAH BLAH BLAH. Time for somebody else to be tested for a while. I guess there are quite a few that can't handle A SINGLE DAY IN THE HOSPITAL OR ER because in all my 43 years of living I have never heard about anyone that has gone thru what I have. Throw in the Cancer, Kidney and Liver problems and respiratory issues that my surgeon had all but guaranteed that I will develop over the next couple of years based on all the radiation, surgeries, antibiotics, narcotics and other stuff I have went thru and I am FULLY not expecting to see 50 years old. I am fully not expecting to see my soon to be 8 year old son graduate from high school much less watch him sign a professional athletic contract or see him play in the big leagues of Football, Soccer, Basketball or ALL OF THEM. Test of faith is one thing but testing it with what we go thru everyday is another. How many of you sneeze and think nothing of it? How many of you feel the sneeze coming on and you have to prepare to sneeze in a certain way? How many of you sneeze in one room and both your wife and 7 year old son yell out and ask if you are ok? I have busted so many hernias sneezing that even my wife and son are afraid to hear me sneeze. What kind of life is that to live? I am not typing this for sympathy abd dont want any. Basically trying to point out that not everybody has the same beliefs and people can get beat down over abd over to the point that they say IF THERE IS A GOD THEN WHY DOES HE KEEP LETTING THIS HAPPEN OVER AND OVER TO THE SAME PERSON. Maybe he is testing me to see far it takes to break me. Maybe there is no God and I got the short end of the stick physically and that is that. But if there is a God then surely there must be others that need tested so back off