Ollympic Uniforms mad in Chine

[Hlleonard]

I have been a Union employee since 1998 and I can tell you firsthand that I am by no means rich. The Unions are necessary in many situations to keep greedy companies from not paying workers or denying or limiting benefits. I work 7 day swing-shift in my current job as a chemical operator, and have been for the past 12 years. I work nights, weekends, holidays, double shifts and such. If my relief takes a vacation and nobody wants the overtime I am looking at 16 hours. If I'm scheduled the next day I have 8 hours to shower, get home, eat, sleep, prepare for the next shift (which could be another 16), and be back to work. Take the Union out of the equation and let the company have their way and I'm making wages that 16 year old, pot-smoking, no bill or responsibility having, is making down the road at McD's or somewhere that doesn't require education and/or drug tests. The Unions are the furthest from being the problem with the economy. I get decent pay, decent benefits, pay the highest dues in our union, and pay all my taxes. The company is profittable and doing well even during these trying times. How am I, or any of the others in the Unions, a drain? Take away the wages and benefit perks and see how much turnover we have in this 24/7/365 chemical operation.

And believe it or not, most of my views are of the conservative sort. Union work doesn't decide your morals or values as many seem to believe.

--
I suspect there are a good many folks who enjoy this site who are either union members or supporters of trade unions that do not take part in discussions of this type because it seems the regular posters are of the opinion that unions are all evil entities of some kind and you usually end up on the light end of the seesaw... All union members are not the greatest folks you ever met but most union members know they have a job to do and as long as the company they work for follow the contract they signed with them, they do the job they get paid to do... There wouldn't be a need for unions anywhere if you were always treated with respect, had a safe environment to work in and weren't expected to "get the job done" regardless of the condition of the machinery you are operating ( guards missing or broken and a host of other things ) and were paid a wage with which you could actually take care of your family without handouts from social programs... I believe OSHA came into the picture some years back and took up the fight to create safer work environments and they were the evil doers for some years to follow... Without trade unions, we have pay scales that are low enough that folks owe no taxes at the end of the year, some of these folks actually qualify for food stamps in a lot of these satellite plants that have sprang up in the last years ... I have heard some of these same folks bad mouth unions all the while they are earning 9 or 10 dollars an hour and blaming union wages for the high cost of the things they need such as food ... Everybody doesn't end up with a college education or a management position of some kind, that shouldn't mean he/she doesn't deserve a fair enough wage so he/she can live without government handouts.

[GeoFisher]

--
I suspect there are a good many folks who enjoy this site who are either union members or supporters of trade unions that do not take part in discussions of this type because it seems the regular posters are of the opinion that unions are all evil entities of some kind and you usually end up on the light end of the seesaw... All union members are not the greatest folks you ever met but most union members know they have a job to do and as long as the company they work for follow the contract they signed with them, they do the job they get paid to do... There wouldn't be a need for unions anywhere if you were always treated with respect, had a safe environment to work in and weren't expected to "get the job done" regardless of the condition of the machinery you are operating ( guards missing or broken and a host of other things ) and were paid a wage with which you could actually take care of your family without handouts from social programs... I believe OSHA came into the picture some years back and took up the fight to create safer work environments and they were the evil doers for some years to follow... Without trade unions, we have pay scales that are low enough that folks owe no taxes at the end of the year, some of these folks actually qualify for food stamps in a lot of these satellite plants that have sprang up in the last years ... I have heard some of these same folks bad mouth unions all the while they are earning 9 or 10 dollars an hour and blaming union wages for the high cost of the things they need such as food ... Everybody doesn't end up with a college education or a management position of some kind, that shouldn't mean he/she doesn't deserve a fair enough wage so he/she can live without government handouts.

I grew up UNION........Trust me I could fill a book with crap about unions and union members. I have family members who have screwed the system for years. I have family members who have gone to work drunk and been saved by the UNION.

I know ALL I need to know about unions. Teamsters and the UAW have ruined this country....

And for the record.....no one deserves a fair wage.....you EARN what you EARN. If you want more, get another job....For years, I worked multiple jobs to help pay for the extras I wanted. 50 hrs for my current job, and sometimes 20-30 hours at a side job. I put 50% down on my first house by working 5 years at a side job.

Later,

Geo

[Hlleonard]

Like stated earlier the Unions alone didn't cause the problems in this country but they do have a hand in it. A person can make claims of how good it is and of course they usually work for one. I have worked around them but never for one and I have problems with most I have been around.

Example#1- In some factories here in Lexington we were stolen from, wires cut and material damaged by the union men. This was not a one time instance either. Certain bad apples didn't like us in their building working since we are not union. No proof but only union men work there so the HR man paid us to redo all that work and paid our bills on material AGAIN! These union guys didn't care because they didn't see the direct cost of paying double for a job. All they saw was an opportunity to show us private contractors how they own the place...they were fools and don't represent all union men and women but this isn't the first time I have seen or heard of this attitude in Unions.

Example#2- Unions and their political pull has cost the state of Kentucky and many others millions of dollars with their prevailing wage push. This was done to level the playing field of bidding against us private contractors. Unions couldn't get the work because they have such a high financial burden and they charge more. So they attacked it from the political side and *poof* we have to start bidding using their fixed rates, it's in the bid documents. So now...we would have to pay some of our techs who usually make $15- $25 an hour.... from $35-$50 to do the same job because it was a gubment job, school or project using state/federal money. The project didn't get better material, constructed better or completed faster. Consider the man who was making $20 to pull wire and now is making $50 an hour. Do you think human nature takes over and he thinks Hmmmmm if I drag my feet and find reasons to prolong this job I'll make more money! That's what happens when this crap gets mandated. The projects just cost the tax payers ALOT more and you know what?? The Unions still can't get their fair share because they still charge to much and private companies are finding way to save money and bid cheaper. So that price fixing did nothing but waste our tax dollars.

Maybe if I worked for a Union I might have a different view but as rule I don't have many good thought about them. I picture the SCIU abusing folks in picket lines, I remember the picket lines getting violent because the unions tried to shut a business down by going on strike and the "scrubs" coming in trying to make a living and being abused.

I have friends who work for UPS, Trane, Electrical Contractors and in the Automotive trade that are union. They are great folks and I don't have a problem with them. I just don't like power the Unions have and how they can bully their way into getting things. I have not seen or heard a good thing from Unions in a long time. All I hear is how they will strike and shut a plant down because they might have to pay for more healthcare or not get their raise like they feel they deserve. Well welcome to the real world!

--
It's not hard to find occurrences where other folks you are working with seem to be dead set on making it tough to get your job done, I suspect a lot of the folks you find yourself at odds with aren't union members so being a union member isn't a requirement for being a butt hole... There are a lot of things in the union environment that I find despicable but it's one of those things that I believe the good out weigh the bad, there are a lot of bad things that happen which we have to tolerate, old folks driving comes to mind but we have to respect their right to do so unless they are an absolute hazard on the road.... As far as having to pay more for healthcare and other benefits, I suspect you are guilty of being a whiner when your healthcare goes up the same as the union members you pointed out.

[Hlleonard]

I grew up UNION........Trust me I could fill a book with crap about unions and union members. I have family members who have screwed the system for years. I have family members who have gone to work drunk and been saved by the UNION.

I know ALL I need to know about unions. Teamsters and the UAW have ruined this country....

And for the record.....no one deserves a fair wage.....you EARN what you EARN. If you want more, get another job....For years, I worked multiple jobs to help pay for the extras I wanted. 50 hrs for my current job, and sometimes 20-30 hours at a side job. I put 50% down on my first house by working 5 years at a side job.

Later,

Geo

--
Mr Fisher I am happy for you, however you live in a country that was made a great place to live and raise a family because of fair wages in the last half of the last century and regardless of whether or not you wish to live in a country where half the population goes to bed hungry, I personally do not wish to be your neighbor in that country... There are lots of folks grateful that you and folks like you are not and hopefully will never be in charge of deciding what kind of country we have.... This country is a great country in spite of folks like you.

[GeoFisher]

--
Mr Fisher I am happy for you, however you live in a country that was made a great place to live and raise a family because of fair wages in the last half of the last century and regardless of whether or not you wish to live in a country where half the population goes to bed hungry, I personally do not wish to be your neighbor in that country... There are lots of folks grateful that you and folks like you are not and hopefully will never be in charge of deciding what kind of country we have.... This country is a great country in spite of folks like you.

What you mean folks like me who WORK hard for what I have.....Save for a rainy day......and TAKE responsibility for myself....

Yea, folks like me are definitely the problem.

Yep.

* We now live in a country that rewards people not to work.
* We now live in a country where there are MORE taking from food stamps than NOT taking from food stamps.
* We now live in a country where people are rewarded for popping out kids they cannot afford.
* We now live in a country where single parenthood is ENCOURAGED and embraced.
* We now live in a country where people are given "earned income" for not striving for success.
* We now live in a country where the president and his ag department ENCOURAGE people to **** off the tit of gubment.
* We now live in a country where protecting the rights of illegals trumps the rights of Americans.

Yea.......THAT sure is the future America I want.

Finally, I'm not completely against unions. Hell, I'd probably embrace them if they were willing to RECOGNIZE the benefits and retirement packages of yesteryear are a thing of the past.

With that being said, I've always believed and will continue to believe that multi tiered pay/benefits/retirement are necessary in the unions. Retirees and folks currently the the "system" should GET what they were promised. The UAW "owes" my parents their retirement, healthcare, and benefits because they were PROMISED that.

BUT......all future contracts and negotiations need to recognize those levels of retirement , healthcare, and benefits are simply not sustainable, and something else must be done.

I don't know the answers there, but it makes me FURIOUS to think the UAW squandered benefits from GM when GM spun off the pensions a few years ago......Now I'm paying the retirees because the UNION screwed the pooch.

I should also say......my mom was conveniently "negotiated" out of her pension benefits and healthcare. She's been fighting for them for nearly 5 years now. The UNION decided to make concessions and SCREWED retirees completely. Yea, they sure were looking out for those that worked for 30 years.......YEP. Wonderful unions.

Later,

Geo

[Hlleonard]

What you mean folks like me who WORK hard for what I have.....Save for a rainy day......and TAKE responsibility for myself....

Yea, folks like me are definitely the problem.

Yep.

* We now live in a country that rewards people not to work.
* We now live in a country where there are MORE taking from food stamps than NOT taking from food stamps.
* We now live in a country where people are rewarded for popping out kids they cannot afford.
* We now live in a country where single parenthood is ENCOURAGED and embraced.
* We now live in a country where people are given "earned income" for not striving for success.
* We now live in a country where the president and his ag department ENCOURAGE people to **** off the tit of gubment.
* We now live in a country where protecting the rights of illegals trumps the rights of Americans.

Yea.......THAT sure is the future America I want.

Finally, I'm not completely against unions. Hell, I'd probably embrace them if they were willing to RECOGNIZE the benefits and retirement packages of yesteryear are a thing of the past.

With that being said, I've always believed and will continue to believe that multi tiered pay/benefits/retirement are necessary in the unions. Retirees and folks currently the the "system" should GET what they were promised. The UAW "owes" my parents their retirement, healthcare, and benefits because they were PROMISED that.

BUT......all future contracts and negotiations need to recognize those levels of retirement , healthcare, and benefits are simply not sustainable, and something else must be done.

I don't know the answers there, but it makes me FURIOUS to think the UAW squandered benefits from GM when GM spun off the pensions a few years ago......Now I'm paying the retirees because the UNION screwed the pooch.

I should also say......my mom was conveniently "negotiated" out of her pension benefits and healthcare. She's been fighting for them for nearly 5 years now. The UNION decided to make concessions and SCREWED retirees completely. Yea, they sure were looking out for those that worked for 30 years.......YEP. Wonderful unions.

Later,

Geo

--
Like I said in another post, I find things in the union that are despicable but throwing the baby out with the bath water just isn't the answer... If I sounded like I accused you of being unpatriotic earlier (after reading it it sounded like that to me too) I apologize.... You have a nice evening.

[DJD]

--
It's not hard to find occurrences where other folks you are working with seem to be dead set on making it tough to get your job done, I suspect a lot of the folks you find yourself at odds with aren't union members so being a union member isn't a requirement for being a butt hole... There are a lot of things in the union environment that I find despicable but it's one of those things that I believe the good out weigh the bad, there are a lot of bad things that happen which we have to tolerate, old folks driving comes to mind but we have to respect their right to do so unless they are an absolute hazard on the road.... As far as having to pay more for healthcare and other benefits, I suspect you are guilty of being a whiner when your healthcare goes up the same as the union members you pointed out.

I gave you some real examples.... You can put your head in the sand and refuse to believe it. Honestly it's typical of union members. Fella I grew up with is a UPS driver and will get red if you talk about the Teamsters. But he also understands the brainwashing that takes place by the union. They pitted him against his friends years ago in the big Teamster strike...yeah that helped the cause and ruined friendships. I see no gain there.

Another example.....in most successful private companies dead beat workers get fired. How many times do we hear all the jokes about unions using three guys to do one mans job? What about dead beat workers who are protected and if they feel singled out for something they file a grievance and get big brother to take care of them? I hear about it enough from union stewards to know it gets abused. No system, regardless of size that bands together and hides weakness or non performing members is fair and a waste someone's money. Look at teachers unions for examples there.

Our gubment has enabled the citizens of this country to be screwed on healthcare. My point is that Unions try and cripple a company when they feel it helps sukk more money out of them........ where I can only take the hit or move on. Big difference.

Nothing new here.....we just don't agree.

[HURRICANEBOB]

PENDULUM SWINGS.

-Unions began forming in the mid-19th century in response to the social and economic impact of the industrial revolution. When they formed it was to unify and work to raise wages that were dramtically below scale and in response to oppressive management. And the unions were initially successfull in raising wages and getting reasonable benefits for employees.
-The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947, was a conservative anti-union law that contained numerous measures to weaken unions (for example, by banning union contributions to political candidates and restricting the power of unions to engage in strikes that "threatened national security"). Unions were further weakened in the 1950s by highly publicized reports of corruption in the Teamsters and other unions.. In other worfds, the union leaders became corrupt and starting siphoning off money and committing crimes to gain and abuse power. So the fed stepped in.
- Now we got the 80's thru 2000, where production flourishes and unions take even higher wages, and senior business managers and CEO's take even more money out of their businesses in the way of wages. Look at all the corporate rip-offs CEO's been doing, Enron, or just goggle corporate scandals, and see an impressive list.

And look at our car industry. We did used to produce the best, we fell way behind, and are working our way back up to the top.

Bottomline.......we have lived fat and sassy as Americans for quite sometime, and foreign countries have become leaner, meaner, and more quality oriented, and competitive then us. We have to fight our way back to the top.

I would love to see all CEO's cut their wages 50%, but the greedy Bstds won't. Who here would like to walk into their boss and say "cut my wages so the business can be more profittable and buy a new machine to make our product more competitive" ? I wouldn't......


The pendulum of American creativity, invention, and quality work swang this country to the top, the arrogance, the corruption, the fraud, the profit taking, and the greed has forced the pendulum to swing down.

My fix......ethics and morals. Crush fraud waste and abuse, prosecute the unscupulous, always do an honest day's work giving the best ya got, dump the sense of entitlement, and get back to the "what do we have to do to make it better, cheaper, and do it ethically" frame of mind.

In the mean time, I'm gonna dump a buck or 2 in lottery tickets, and just hope dumb luck beats science. If it does, and I do get stupid rich overnight, I plan to hire a couple ax men attorneys and start suing and bring charges on every unethical business man I run into. But until then....I'm just gonna get the nose to the grind stone and gut it out!

[stripernut]

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has proposed needless and unnecessary changes to railroad retirement, a sound pension system that costs the taxpayers nothing yet is solvent as it is completely funded by railroad workers and the rail industry itself. These changes will adversely affect current railroad employees and retirees and their families, increasing their taxes while decreasing their benefits, while saving the taxpayer nothing. Railroad workers currently pay higher taxes than most citizens to fund this system, and there is no need to force them to pay higher taxes to fund something that is solvent. Further, this budget proposal will decrease the benefits of current retirees. This is completely unnecessary as well, as retirees should not be penalized for something they paid into their entire careers. Please contact your elected officials to stop these unneeded changes to the Railroad Retirement System.

sorry folks but as a railroader i still need some sort of protection from the big bad greedy wolf....but on the other hand im still trying to figure out WHO the greedy wolf is

i suppose the railroad industry is unique in that its kind of hard to send it overseas. collective bargaining has brought higher healthcare contributions while still comparatively less than what "joe public" pays in most cases.

and while we have been able to secure pay raises they are on par with raises given to employees who work for similarly financiallly stable/successful companies, so theres nothing greedy there. by the way engineers bonuses are based on productivity calculations that are formulated to ensure employee contributions such as on time train performance, safety, and number of days worked. hardly the spoiled lazy union member portrayed in some of the above posts.....in other words youre productive, responsible and accountable or it costs you. you WILL earn it as railroading is a very demanding lifestyle as you are on call 24/7/365.

i dont remember ever posting on the "off topic" section, i dunnno maybe i have at some point dont remember, but i couldnt sit back and watch this one.......im not speaking because i "know somebody that has an uncle that is union" I AM UNION !!!! i live it everyday. and with this republican jerk off trying to take my retirement just who in the hell do you think is going to go to bat for me? my union officials are all ive got .
and as a proud union member and productive member of society i take great offense at what some people are accusing me of being. friend i aint lazy.....and geo congratulations on your 50% downpayment on your first home.....but sorry i paid cash for my first home, granted looking back it wasnt much, but it was mine and i worked hard for it.

now with that said....how bout we all quit whining on the sidelines and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT??

[DJD]

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has proposed needless and unnecessary changes to railroad retirement, a sound pension system that costs the taxpayers nothing yet is solvent as it is completely funded by railroad workers and the rail industry itself. These changes will adversely affect current railroad employees and retirees and their families, increasing their taxes while decreasing their benefits, while saving the taxpayer nothing. Railroad workers currently pay higher taxes than most citizens to fund this system, and there is no need to force them to pay higher taxes to fund something that is solvent. Further, this budget proposal will decrease the benefits of current retirees. This is completely unnecessary as well, as retirees should not be penalized for something they paid into their entire careers. Please contact your elected officials to stop these unneeded changes to the Railroad Retirement System.

sorry folks but as a railroader i still need some sort of protection from the big bad greedy wolf....but on the other hand im still trying to figure out WHO the greedy wolf is

i suppose the railroad industry is unique in that its kind of hard to send it overseas. collective bargaining has brought higher healthcare contributions while still comparatively less than what "joe public" pays in most cases.

and while we have been able to secure pay raises they are on par with raises given to employees who work for similarly financiallly stable/successful companies, so theres nothing greedy there. by the way engineers bonuses are based on productivity calculations that are formulated to ensure employee contributions such as on time train performance, safety, and number of days worked. hardly the spoiled lazy union member portrayed in some of the above posts.....in other words youre productive, responsible and accountable or it costs you. you WILL earn it as railroading is a very demanding lifestyle as you are on call 24/7/365.

i dont remember ever posting on the "off topic" section, i dunnno maybe i have at some point dont remember, but i couldnt sit back and watch this one.......im not speaking because i "know somebody that has an uncle that is union" I AM UNION !!!! i live it everyday. and with this republican jerk off trying to take my retirement just who in the hell do you think is going to go to bat for me? my union officials are all ive got .
and as a proud union member and productive member of society i take great offense at what some people are accusing me of being. friend i aint lazy.....and geo congratulations on your 50% downpayment on your first home.....but sorry i paid cash for my first home, granted looking back it wasnt much, but it was mine and i worked hard for it.

now with that said....how bout we all quit whining on the sidelines and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT??

Do what? Vote for our grand master card carrying racist NAACP member potus? Or vote for the other guy? What else do we do? If you think that I'm proud of our choices your mistaken. I have no loyalty to the GOP. Only registered with them a few years ago. Give me a good solid choice of a real leader and I could give a crap what he calls himself/herself I am a gun toting conservative so that can tell you I won't vote for our present potus....but again what do we do other than vote?
I have sent emails to state politicians when I felt I needed to tell them my feelings but what else do we do?

[MLTSPCS]

As to the post about unions protecting dangerous/non-performing/drunk workers, how long ago are you talking about? Unions are a lot more selective now in what cases they arbitrate. If someone truly deserves punishment or termination our union has a panel that decides what to do instead of wasting the money to fight for them. As to the raises, we decided collectively to do a 3 year contract instead of a 5 year in hopes that our company would be more profitable and be able to give us back some of the 7% pay cut we agreed to for the initial agreement. With a Union, the salary (non-union) workers got all their money back that had been cut along with ours plus merit raises while we received a 2.5% raise as year one passed and again at year two . How do you think we would have faired without a binding union contract? Nevermind the fact that the year following the contract we had record profits. As to healthcare, ours is mediocre at best as my premiums, deductibles, out-of-pocket numbers went up, my benefits decreased from 90/10 after deduc/o-o-p to 80/20. As to my pension, it is frozen at a fairly low dollar amount per year of service while still accumulating years of service. As to PRI, my 401k is $.50 company contribution/$1 employee contribution up to 6% (if I put in 6%, they will match with 3). Where do you see anything above the norm for a job I do that many people can't? I'm confident it would be much worse without the help of our union.

On a good note to this, we actually have several customers that order our specialty elastomers/polymers because we ARE union and we ARE the only, or one of few (depending on which product) North American companies that manufacture the goods they need.