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Senior Member
Moose, just for your information I AM NOT A REPUBLICIN -- I am an INDEPENDENT in my politics and, unlike you, in my THINKING!! Just becuase someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean that they are spreading HOWSWASH nor DISINFORMATION. Again for your information, there are millions of people that disagree with you AND AL GORE.
Grumpy
Senior Member
We know that Global warming is real.
Why are the polar ice caps melting?
Why are the Glaciers melting and leaving behind valleys that were once covered in tens of feet of ice?
Can you at least admit that the Glaciers are melting?
If not, that tells me that you refuse to see what is going on around you. And that's a shame.
The tallest mountains on earth are seeing their ice caps melt. There is less ice now than there was 30 year and 50 years ago.
Can you explain why the core samples of ice taken from some of the glaciers before they vanished showed an increase in CO2 content in their gas bubbles that correlates with increased industrialization of the Earth?
Disinformation is what the Fossil Fuel Energy Companies are all about these days.
We can't continue to grow this country when oil prices remain so high. And it's going to get worse if they run out of oil and prices continue to rise.
If we don't so something to encourage more research in to alternative energy source we are going to be very very sorry.
I'll tell you one thing. I don't support OPEC which is a Monopoly. I favor the break up of OPEC and I have been saying that since 1973.
This should not be a Dem Vs Rep thing. It should be a human struggle to survive issue. It should be a quality of living thing. It should be an American Thing.
It's a shame that some of the GOP Senators are so hard headed that they can't see the light in their eyes. Maybe it the payments that they get from the Fossil Fuel Companies. And if the Dems don't do something I'll be on their a(( too.
Senior Member
""This should not be a Dem Vs Rep thing. It should be a human struggle to survive issue. It should be a quality of living thing. It should be an American Thing.""
I agree 100%! We will never get where we need to be because of that problem. I'm just an average tax paying guy and the Democrats get me flustered with their cheap shots about the Republicans and I'm vary aware it works both ways. Neither party is 100% right but as a Country we are split due to unsavory political and business practices.
Senior Member
---------------------------------------Originally Posted by DJD
DJD:
You are so correct and that's my point. We should follow the advice of the real scientist not the politicians.
The sad part is that the politicians now control the scientist and tell them what to say and what not to say. And they rewrite the scientific reports to change their conclusions.
They don't give out Nobel Peace Prize to people who lying. The honor is reserved for the best and brightest people. Al Gore is only telling us what the real scientist are telling us about this planet. There is no disinformation coming from Al. I wish that I could say that about the GOP side of this equation.
All one has to really think about to figure out who's the biased folk is to follow the money. Big Oil has billions invested in keeping our economy using huge quantities of OIL. They answer to their stock holders and that's all. Big Oil is not required to keep America Safe. They are a fascist company who's only responsibility it to their stock holders and all they want is a dividend check. The stock owners are not going to lose money and help this country ween itself on a cash cow. So they deny that global warming is happening. Even though Bush and McCain have publically stated on TV that Global Warming is real and it's happening now. The former CIA director is driving a hybrid car today. He too says that Global Warming is real and that the effects of the melting ice up north is hurting our own National Security. And the former CIA guys know all about our National Defense and were we are vulnerable. This summer there will be Chinese Nuclear Submarines up North in the Arctic Sea cruising under the open oceans just waiting for the launch orders. And there will be Russian Nuclear Subs up there too. They can get much closer to our shores because the ice is melting up there. They can even get more surface ships up there now. The polar bears are not the only ones in danger of the melting ice.
Senior Member
Moose:
"You are trying to confuse the facts again. I said that Global Warming Was Real not that it was caused by man. Two very different things."
Gotcha--so global warming is NOT caused by man. Glad we cleared that up.
Senior Member
Gotcha????? Are you serious? You got NOTHING!!!!!
You seemed to have finally said that Global Warming is real.
Is that your "FINAL ANSWER" or are you going to "FLIP FLOP" on me again?
All the real xperts at NASA and NOAA are in agreement. All the unbiased and truthful climate X perts understand that mankind is making our earth warmer by our human activities.
My text books from the late 1970's told me that.. And it's even more true today.
The evidence when looked at scientifically not politically is undisputable.
It's crystal clear that the earth is warming up.
Senior Member
"You seemed to have finally said that Global Warming is real."
Moose, what we have been discussing is causation, not existence. I challenge you to show me any instance in this thread where I said global warming wasn't real. Are you getting your discussion partners confused?
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"All the real xperts at NASA and NOAA are in agreement. All the unbiased and truthful climate X perts understand that mankind is making our earth warmer by our human activities."
So, in post #9 when you said "I said that Global Warming Was Real not that it was caused by man. Two very different things", you meant "Global warming is caused by man." Thanks for clearing that up.
Senior Member
Yes. Sorry! I thought you were someone else.
Now getting back to causation only!
I think that mankinds activities have had a significant effect on the warming of the earth, Global Warming.
We have been increasing the amount of fossil fuels burned. The amount of CO2 gas in the atmosphere has increased along with the temperature.
And the amount of logging around the equatorial zones have been on the increase. If you could see the pictures of some areas of South America you will noticed large tracts of land where the trees have been cut down and BURNED. This burning is releasing all the carbon from those huge rain forest trees. And cutting down the rain forest which helped to absorb lots of CO2 gas is not helping. So that is a double edged sword that helps to increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
What really worried me the most in the melting of those glaciers in the antiartic. Right now the sea ice is melting and that's not going to make the ocean levels rise. The ice displaces as much water as it would if it were just water. But when the ice on the continents starts to melt and slide into the Artic Ocean it will cause sea levels to rise. That's new water that's being added to the worlds oceans that was once a solid and on the land.
Global Warming was not my major issue. What I hate to see is the disinformaton that OTHERS, not you, have been putting on the net.
Sorry I mistook you for the others.
Senior Member
Probably so. Problem is, no one one has proved--frankly, CAN prove--that the recent rise in global temperatures is caused by man.
The Earth has always experienced periods of warming and cooling. 55,000,000 years ago, during what was known as the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), global temps rose by over 40 degrees F in only 10,000 years. There were no automobiles or factories back then, to state the obvious.
The whole continent of North America was once covered in ice. This fact dismantles the correlation you're trying to make.
Very easily. The Earth experiences natural rises and falls in CO2 atmospheric content. Has man contributed? Definitely. Can we say with any certainty that industrialization has caused global warming? Definitely not.
But here's where we might come together, Moose. Even though I doubt that global warming is man-made to the extent claimed, I think we should all act as if it is. Drive smaller vehicles. Carpool. Take public transportation. Use energy-efficient appliances.
The difference is, I want to choose to do it rather than have it forced upon me.
Senior Member
Probably so. Problem is, no one one has proved--frankly, CAN prove--that the recent rise in global temperatures is caused by man.
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You are trying to confuse the facts again. I said that Global Warming Was Real not that it was caused by man. Two very different things.
The earth is warming up. That's easy to prove. Recorded temperatures taken though out the world over the last 30 year show increasing average global temperatures. And if you look around at the melting ice it shows that the earth is getting warmer. Ice won't melt if it's getting colder. Ice Caps melt when the Earth warms up. Duh!
But the latter is also true. Man's activities are directly correlated to the warming trend since the industrial revolution. Ice core samples taken from the Glacial ice have been analyzed and shown to have increasing CO2 gas in the ice core as you get nearer the surface. The core samples are like tree rings in a way. The ice cores allow scientist to look back though time at the CO2 levels in the ice cores. The deeper you go in the core sample the older that ice is. That's because the oldest ice was laid down first and covered up by the younger ice.
Atmospheric Scientists have good data to show that mankind is creating the greenhouse gases.
Do you deny that we are burning more and more fossil fuels. Do you deny that the human population is increasing. Do you deny that we are running out of oil becasue we are using it fasater than it can be made?
Senior Member
Why are the Glaciers melting and leaving behind valleys that were once covered in tens of feet of ice? [/QUOTE]
The whole continent of North America was once covered in ice. This fact dismantles the correlation you're trying to make
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You are nuts if you think this statement dismantles what I was saying. That is plain nuts.
While the earth has been warming up over the last few thousand years you forget about the 1300 when the little ice age hit. That had a huge impact on human populations. I think that the plague wiped out 1/3 of the existing human population in that century.
Much of the ice that was in the glaciers was laid down during that last little ice age and that was only 700 years ago. Duh!
I am very much aware of the earth's historical cycles having studied the geological history of the earth from the Cambrian Time to present. I am aware of the fact of continental drift such. I spend an entire year studying the history of the earth. I am also aware of World History.
Your analysis is flawed in many ways. Your logic defies reasoning.
Bottom line if that during the Jurassic Period we didn't have 7 billion humans on this earth to protect. Yes the earth runs in cycles but it's also true that those time cycles are related to our orbit around the sun. Every ten thousands years the cycles has seemed to repeat itself. But the rate of change has never been so fast as it is to day. The rate of change in global average temperature was slow slow slow. It was not rapid like today.
The rate of change of temperature is the key. I am well aware that the ocean levels have risen and fallen by 100's of feet. I know that an inland sea formed over what is now the Midwestern USA.
And the vast majority of the Scientist on this planet are telling us that man's activities of burning thousands of tons of coal are effecting the atmosphere.
It's so obvious to anyone without a bias that it's like a giant zit sitting on your nose. It's impossible to not see the effects that man has on this planet.
And if that is not enough to convince you then I wish you could get a ride on the space shuttle and observe the earth from space. From there you can see the burning rain forests in South America.
It's only reasonable to figure out that if it took 200 million years to produce the coal and oil that's buried in the ground combined with the fact that we are burning up all that coal at an EVER INCREASING RATE that something has to give. Taking the trees down and planting more crops then burning them as fuel is going to increase the amount of Free CO2. You take all that Carbon that was tied up under the ground in the form of coal and then release it into the atmosphere in such a relatively short time period and there is no place for it to go. There's not enough algae in the waters or trees on the earth to use up all that excess CO2
And it's a PROVE SCIENTIFIC fast that CO2 gas in the air causes a green house warming effect.
To deny that scientific fast is not only a political mistake but it's fool hardy.
Senior Member
The whole continent of North America was once covered in ice. This fact dismantles the correlation you're trying to make.
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Wrong.. A false statement. The glacial ice did not cover all of the USA. It only came down to the middle part of INDIANA.
All one has to do is look at the geology of IN to see this. Turkey Run State Park was near the edge of the Glacial Ice.
Go back and study your geological History or find a google source that's no so inaccurate.
If Southern Indiana were covered by glaciers there would be scares on the bedrock where the glaciers moved over the area. There would be glacial tillage at the end of the glaciers edge where they melted and left huge boulders that had been tied up in the glacial ice and moved along with the ice and then deposited at the end of the glacier when it melted and started to retreat back North.
And then one more thing. I am sure that you have heard about the Famous North West Passage that never existed in modern times. It was only recently opened up allowing ships to sail though it the last few years. That is a direct effect of mankind's global warming.
You have not even begun to answer my questions about why the ice is melting.
Well I am going to tell you since you refuse to face the facts.
The Glaciers are melting and falling off of the Antarctic Continent because mankind is burning too many fossil fuels and warming up this plant's atmosphere. And the poles are the most impacted areas.
And the rate of increase is INCREASING faster than in recorded history.
You can take these facts too the bank!
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