This just in....from a PEACEFUL religion.......

[GeoFisher]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/08...est=latestnews

[DJD]

So if they start that stuff here does freedom of Religion take precedence over the laws of the USA? Wouldn't we be imposing on their rights as a Muslim to stone folks if we charged someone for assault or murder?

[RoadToad]

That's priceless! You're using the actions of the Taliban as an example of what Islam is about. Kind of like using the Spanish Inquisition as a shining example of Christianity. But you know what those two have in common? They're THEOCRACIES, and no theocracy in the history of man has ever been anything but oppressive, bloody, and basically barbaric, whether they were Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or whatever.

[GeoFisher]

That's priceless! You're using the actions of the Taliban as an example of what Islam is about. Kind of like using the Spanish Inquisition as a shining example of Christianity. But you know what those two have in common? They're THEOCRACIES, and no theocracy in the history of man has ever been anything but oppressive, bloody, and basically barbaric, whether they were Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or whatever.

Well......since we're talking about the 21st century and NOT the 12th century....and ISLAMIC RADICALS are the ones stoning people to death..........YEA, I'm using them as an example.

[GeoFisher]

Of course, I was going to say what Christian group has acted like the Taliban, and I really cannot come up with one........but what the Serbs did to Bosnians is right up there.....but GUESS who kicked the SERBS ASS..........yea that is RIGHT, we DID.

AND the Muslim world STILL HATES US........imagine that.

BUT on a different note........I think Eastern European Muslims might be less "radical" versus Arabic Muslims.....

Later,

Geo

[Grumpy]

When a religion has a basic precept from it founder, Mohamed, that says to CONVERT THEM OR KILL THEM (referring to all non muslims) I don't see how anyone can say one element is radical and the other is not radical and I especially don't see how it can be called it a peaceful religion.

Grumpy

[Tom523]

When a religion has a basic precept from it founder, Mohamed, that says to CONVERT THEM OR KILL THEM (referring to all non muslims) I don't see how anyone can say one element is radical and the other is not radical and I especially don't see how it can be called it a peaceful religion.

Grumpy

I think you hit the nail on the head!

[Catfish Bob]

Of course they blame it on the Taliban. lol what the heck.
That is not the way their religion teaches them to live...noooo that couldn't be.
When something like this happens its the taliban or insurgents or terrorist. Its never the people doing what they have done for thousands of years.

[RoadToad]

When a religion has a basic precept from it founder, Mohamed, that says to CONVERT THEM OR KILL THEM (referring to all non muslims) I don't see how anyone can say one element is radical and the other is not radical and I especially don't see how it can be called it a peaceful religion.

Grumpy

I hesitate to even ask this, because I don't know if you or I really want to debate theology on this board, but what passage(s) of the Koran are you referring to? The ones quoted by terrorists to justify their actions are generally snipped out of context. If you read the entire passages, it becomes apparent that they don't refer to ALL non-Muslims, only those that "attack them in their land." Of course, I can't claim to be an expert of any kind. I've read a lot about Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, but most of that has been online, and I haven't had discussions with religious leaders or teachers. But I believe that when the Koran (or Quran, Q'uran, however you want to spell it) refers to "unbelievers," it is referring to people who are not true to their faith, whatever that faith may be, not to all non-Muslims. Besides, the Koran specifically states that Jewish and Christian Scripture (The Tonach and The Bible) are true! To wit: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA)."

By the way, for those of you who think that when they call Him "Allah," that means they're talking about a different God, that's not the case. It's just that "Allah" is the Arabic word for God, so they're not talking about a different God, any more than Spanish people are referring to a different God when they call Him "Dios."

I think it's very sad that there is so much animosity between the adherents of these two religions, who have so much in common. "What do they have in common," you ask? Here's just one example. Of all you Christians reading this, how many believe that Jesus Christ will return to the Earth at the end of the world? (raise your hands ) Well guess what? Muslims believe that, too! It also is an article of faith for Muslims that Jesus Christ was the product of a virgin birth. The Virgin Mary is the only woman mentioned by name in the Koran. Muslims revere Christ as a prophet, who foretold Muhammad's coming. Obviously, there are some major differences between how the two religions tell the story, but that's a lot more respect than Judaism gives him. In Judaism, Jesus is generally considered a "false messiah," one of may that have cropped up over the years. The only special status accorded him is that he is considered the most influential, and therefore the most DAMAGING, of all of them.

I guess I should include a disclaimer: I am not a follower of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religion. I believe there is good and bad to be found in EVERY religion. The main reason I reject ALL of them is that each claims to have the truth about things that I believe are unknowable to we humans.

Grumpy, like I said before, if you don't want to get into a theological debate on this board, I'm totally fine with that. We can just agree to disagree.

[parker]

I hesitate to even ask this, because I don't know if you or I really want to debate theology on this board, but what passage(s) of the Koran are you referring to? The ones quoted by terrorists to justify their actions are generally snipped out of context. If you read the entire passages, it becomes apparent that they don't refer to ALL non-Muslims, only those that "attack them in their land." Of course, I can't claim to be an expert of any kind. I've read a lot about Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, but most of that has been online, and I haven't had discussions with religious leaders or teachers. But I believe that when the Koran (or Quran, Q'uran, however you want to spell it) refers to "unbelievers," it is referring to people who are not true to their faith, whatever that faith may be, not to all non-Muslims. Besides, the Koran specifically states that Jewish and Christian Scripture (The Tonach and The Bible) are true! To wit: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA)."

By the way, for those of you who think that when they call Him "Allah," that means they're talking about a different God, that's not the case. It's just that "Allah" is the Arabic word for God, so they're not talking about a different God, any more than Spanish people are referring to a different God when they call Him "Dios."

I think it's very sad that there is so much animosity between the adherents of these two religions, who have so much in common. "What do they have in common," you ask? Here's just one example. Of all you Christians reading this, how many believe that Jesus Christ will return to the Earth at the end of the world? (raise your hands ) Well guess what? Muslims believe that, too! It also is an article of faith for Muslims that Jesus Christ was the product of a virgin birth. The Virgin Mary is the only woman mentioned by name in the Koran. Muslims revere Christ as a prophet, who foretold Muhammad's coming. Obviously, there are some major differences between how the two religions tell the story, but that's a lot more respect than Judaism gives him. In Judaism, Jesus is generally considered a "false messiah," one of may that have cropped up over the years. The only special status accorded him is that he is considered the most influential, and therefore the most DAMAGING, of all of them.

I guess I should include a disclaimer: I am not a follower of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religion. I believe there is good and bad to be found in EVERY religion. The main reason I reject ALL of them is that each claims to have the truth about things that I believe are unknowable to we humans.

Grumpy, like I said before, if you don't want to get into a theological debate on this board, I'm totally fine with that. We can just agree to disagree.

I am a christian! But a little known fact about the quaran is that its texts contain most of the people in the Holy Bible, just in a different context. Who wouda thunk it.

[Grumpy]

Roadtoad, thank you, I have not had that good a belly laugh in years. A professed agnostic wanting to debate theology—what a hoot!!

Anyhow, I don’t feel I am qualified to debate theology. I have read the Bible but I still think that War and Peace was much more entertaining. I have never had any interest in reading the Koran. Long before the current surge of Islam, I read enough about it and its history to determine that Islam was/is a very violent and oppressive religion which I wanted no part of.

As to your point that: “If you read the entire passages, it becomes apparent that they don't refer to ALL non-Muslims, only those that "attack them in their land.", I think that a short study of the history of Islam, and its desire, aim and attempts for the subjugation of all non-Muslims would show that your limited version and understanding of “convert them or kill them” is the one that is erroneous.

That being said, I have no disagreement with you. Anything that is written, or spoken, including and especially the contents of the Bible and the Koran, is open to interpretation. Why else can a Republican and a Democrat listen to a speech by Obama (or any other person) and come away with two very divergent opinions of what was said and/or ment by the exact same words.

Grumpy

[Grumpy]

That's priceless! You're using the actions of the Taliban as an example of what Islam is about. Kind of like using the Spanish Inquisition as a shining example of Christianity. But you know what those two have in common? They're THEOCRACIES, and no theocracy in the history of man has ever been anything but oppressive, bloody, and basically barbaric, whether they were Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or whatever.

Roadtoad, I was just going over this thread again and reread what you had written eariler (above). I totally agree with you about THEOCRACIES being oppresive, bloody, and barbaric and was just wondering if that means you really understand that Islam was all of these things in the past and still is today.

Grumpy