God and Religion

[Bill M of NJ]

A guy who did our companies first aid and CPR courses told us that all the years as an EMT he never met a true atheist and that included a guy he knew who claimed to be an atheist. The day they are about to die they are praying to every god available and grasping for every last straw to there last breathe. And yes I may not be the church goer some are but I do it in my own way.

[Hlleonard]

I have watched three people die, whether or not either of them were atheist only they knew, none of the three asked for a preacher, none of the three were church going believers as far as I know, none of the three spent any of their last hours preying as far as I know, It seems to me ministers are needed/requested by those who practice their faith... I have heard this before"there are no atheist in fox holes" that is merely the opinion of those who accept the belief and won't accept that not everybody believes as they do.. There are those who simply do not believe as you do whether or not you are willing to accept it..

[sweetwater]

I don't admire the guy who runs all over creation, posting the 10 commandments. I respect the ones that know them, and practise them.

I as well respect the ones that live their life according to the will of God and the ones that spread his word just as the Bible instructs us to do. How do you know God didn't command that guy to run all over HIS creation and post HIS commandments or maybe that guy is actually one of God's angels that has been sent here by God himself? On my judgment day I would not want to try to explain why I didn't admire that guy let alone making that feeling known to the entire world.

[sweetwater]

I've often had that discussion...does an American Indian who believes in spirit gods automatically go to hell because they have not embraced Jesus....I don't think so especially if they have never been introduced...

It is tough...

I agree, especially since many American Indian belief systems include many sacred narratives that are based on nature or the power of nature. Respectfully, the Bible contains similar stories.

[DJD]

This "my Jesus is better than your Jesus" just baffles me.

That's a great point. I have honestly struggled with that...how can millions and millions of people who believe in their own "Gods" be wrong? I could never come up with a comfortable conclusion so I just mind my own belief and respect the others right to believe in what they want.

[Hlleonard]

That's a great point. I have honestly struggled with that...how can millions and millions of people who believe in their own "Gods" be wrong? I could never come up with a comfortable conclusion so I just mind my own belief and respect the others right to believe in what they want.

--
We don't start having problems unless and until those who believe a certain way start attempting to push their belief on others... One of the reasons we have a good country is because those before us were wise enough to know that and put in place the first amendment.. Lots of folks today have a desire to rewrite/interpret this in a way as to allow their religion to be forced into our government...

[MrSplitshot]

That's a great point. I have honestly struggled with that...how can millions and millions of people who believe in their own "Gods" be wrong? I could never come up with a comfortable conclusion so I just mind my own belief and respect the others right to believe in what they want.

That's probably my biggest struggle too. A Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Bhuddist, an Agnostic, and an Atheist walk into a bar...the bar gets hit by an asteroid and kills everyone inside. Either all of them but 1 are pretty unhappy after the lights go out, or there's something about God that we just don't understand.

So here's my story...keepin it real...putting it all out there...

I consider myself a Christian, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not sure about it all. I believe that there is something beyond this world that we don't understand. A God, yes, that created all of this. It didn't just happen for no reason. I believe it's this unknown that perpetuated humans to create varying forms of Gods and religions. I feel like religion is a product of man, created to cope with life, death, and that which can't be explained...and to get them closer to their version of God. I hear about Jesus and the whole story. I want to believe it. It seems awfully "out there" sometimes though, but I try to go with it. I don't believe that it all just goes black when it's over, but sometimes I'm scared that it might.

I envy those that believe so strongly, because I wish I did. It just hasn't come into my life yet with such clarity that I believe without a shadow of a doubt. Honestly, it scares me a little that I don't, but honestly I haven't tried that hard either. I have friends that are complete Atheists that would give you the shirt off their back and are great people. I have friends that are so devout that they tell me with 100% conviction how God literally speaks to them in the course of their daily lives and gives them guidance.

Do I pray? Yes. Most nights, during times of struggle, before a flight, holidays, etc. I pray to my God. I pray to Him to keep my family safe and bring me home to them. I thank Him for my blessings. I don't go to church. I try to do unto others as I know is right, be helpful, be humble, try to love, work hard, and be a nice guy. I don't cheat, murder, steal. Yes, I've told a white lie now and then for my own benefit or the benefit of someone I love. I cuss. I respect others. I want to make people happy, but don't always succeed. I guess I'm a human. I hope it's enough at the end of my time on Earth. To hear many, it will be. To hear many others, it won't.

That's the screwed up head of MrSplitshot, I reckon. lol

[wishniwasfishn]

That's probably my biggest struggle too. A Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Bhuddist, an Agnostic, and an Atheist walk into a bar...the bar gets hit by an asteroid and kills everyone inside. Either all of them but 1 are pretty unhappy after the lights go out, or there's something about God that we just don't understand.

So here's my story...keepin it real...putting it all out there...

I consider myself a Christian, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not sure about it all. I believe that there is something beyond this world that we don't understand. A God, yes, that created all of this. It didn't just happen for no reason. I believe it's this unknown that perpetuated humans to create varying forms of Gods and religions. I feel like religion is a product of man, created to cope with life, death, and that which can't be explained...and to get them closer to their version of God. I hear about Jesus and the whole story. I want to believe it. It seems awfully "out there" sometimes though, but I try to go with it. I don't believe that it all just goes black when it's over, but sometimes I'm scared that it might.

I envy those that believe so strongly, because I wish I did. It just hasn't come into my life yet with such clarity that I believe without a shadow of a doubt. Honestly, it scares me a little that I don't, but honestly I haven't tried that hard either. I have friends that are complete Atheists that would give you the shirt off their back and are great people. I have friends that are so devout that they tell me with 100% conviction how God literally speaks to them in the course of their daily lives and gives them guidance.

Do I pray? Yes. Most nights, during times of struggle, before a flight, holidays, etc. I pray to my God. I pray to Him to keep my family safe and bring me home to them. I thank Him for my blessings. I don't go to church. I try to do unto others as I know is right, be helpful, be humble, try to love, work hard, and be a nice guy. I don't cheat, murder, steal. Yes, I've told a white lie now and then for my own benefit or the benefit of someone I love. I cuss. I respect others. I want to make people happy, but don't always succeed. I guess I'm a human. I hope it's enough at the end of my time on Earth. To hear many, it will be. To hear many others, it won't.

That's the screwed up head of MrSplitshot, I reckon. lol

Splitshot, I am in the same boat as you, I go back and forth between believing, and then thinking an asteroid hit this earth billions of years ago, and life sprung from that, and we have evolved to what we are now. I still pray, I still try to live my life in a way that if there is a god, I am hopeful to be judged good enough to enter the pearly gates, I look at the ten commandments as rules to live by.....sometimes, I can almost feel the lord inside of me, and then sometimes, when I see children dying of cancer, or being raped and killed, I wonder if there was a god, would he allow this to happen, I was told one time by a Baptist preacher that without suffering there would be no compassion.....I just don't buy that. I do know that something happened to my wife and I that I cannot explain, other than it was the good lord protecting us....I was driving down bardstown road towards mt. Washington, doing about 65 miles an hour, and the light turned red, I was cruising pretty good, and had to hit the brakes really hard to stop, and for some reason, and to this day my wife and I cannot figure it out, I swerved in the other lane, never looked back, never looked over, just for some reason, I abruptly switched lanes, and as soon as I stopped a dollar store semi went by me doing about 80, if I would of not gotten over, I know we would of both been dead, he had nowhere else to go except the back end of my vehicle. I swear to this day, I never looked back, I didn't know he was there, and I still don't know why I switched lanes, other than someone up there didn't want me dead yet, and made me switch lanes, its just something I would ever do, espically without looking over to see if there was a car in the other lane, but I did it, and I am alive today because of it.....

[waterdog101]

That's a great point. I have honestly struggled with that...how can millions and millions of people who believe in their own "Gods" be wrong? I could never come up with a comfortable conclusion so I just mind my own belief and respect the others right to believe in what they want.

I'm a firm believer in Jesus Christ, and consider myself to be an open minded person. the story of Jesus, the Death, Burial and resurrection is the only one that makes sense to me. so I place all my eggs in Jesus's basket. for anyone that can't make up there mind, which road to take. here is a good read, that try's to eliminate the roads that lead to nowhere. hope it helps someone, to find their way home.


There is no doubt that the number of different religions in the world makes it a challenge to know which one is correct. First, let’s consider some thoughts on the overall subject and then look at how one might approach the topic in a manner that can actually get to a right conclusion about God. The challenge of different answers to a particular issue is not unique to the topic of religion. For example, you can sit 100 math students down, give them a complex problem to solve, and it is likely that many will get the answer wrong. But does this mean that a correct answer does not exist? Not at all. Those who get the answer wrong simply need to be shown their error and know the techniques necessary to arrive at the correct answer.

How do we arrive at the truth about God? We use a systematic methodology that is designed to separate truth from error by using various tests for truth, with the end result being a set of right conclusions. Can you imagine the end results a scientist would arrive at if he went into the lab and just started mixing things together with no rhyme or reason? Or if a physician just started treating a patient with random medicines in the hope of making him well? Neither the scientist nor the physician takes this approach; instead, they use systematic methods that are methodical, logical, evidential, and proven to yield the right end result.

This being the case, why should theology—the study of God—be any different? Why believe it can be approached in a haphazard and undisciplined way and still yield right conclusions? Unfortunately, this is the approach many take, and this is one of the reasons why so many religions exist. That said, we now return to the question of how to reach truthful conclusions about God. What systematic approach should be used? First, we need to establish a framework for testing various truth claims, and then we need a roadmap to follow to reach a right conclusion. Here is a good framework to use:

1. Logical consistency—the claims of a belief system must logically cohere to each other and not contradict in any way. As an example, the end goal of Buddhism is to rid oneself of all desires. Yet, one must have a desire to rid oneself of all desires, which is a contradictory and illogical principle.

2. Empirical adequacy—is there evidence to support the belief system (whether the evidence is rational, externally evidential, etc.)? Naturally, it is only right to want proof for important claims being made so the assertions can be verified. For example, Mormons teach that Jesus visited North America. Yet there is absolutely no proof, archaeological or otherwise, to support such a claim.

3. Existential relevancy—the belief system should address the big questions of life described below and the teachings should be accurately reflected in the world in which we live. Christianity, for example, provides good answers for the large questions of life, but is sometimes questioned because of its claim of an all-good and powerful God who exists alongside a world filled with very real evil. Critics charge that such a thing violates the criteria of existential relevancy, although many good answers have been given to address the issue.

The above framework, when applied to the topic of religion, will help lead one to a right view of God and will answer the four big questions of life:

1. Origin – where did we come from?
2. Ethics – how should we live?
3. Meaning – what is the purpose for life?
4. Destiny – where is mankind heading?

But how does one go about applying this framework in the pursuit of God? A step-by-step question/answer approach is one of the best tactics to employ. Narrowing the list of possible questions down produces the following:

1. Does absolute truth exist?
2. Do reason and religion mix?
3. Does God exist?
4. Can God be known?
5. Is Jesus God?
6. Does God care about me?

First we need to know if absolute truth exists. If it does not, then we really cannot be sure of anything (spiritual or not), and we end up either an agnostic, unsure if we can really know anything, or a pluralist, accepting every position because we are not sure which, if any, is right.

Absolute truth is defined as that which matches reality, that which corresponds to its object, telling it like it is. Some say there is no such thing as absolute truth, but taking such a position becomes self-defeating. For example, the relativist says, “All truth is relative,” yet one must ask: is that statement absolutely true? If so, then absolute truth exists; if not, then why consider it? Postmodernism affirms no truth, yet it affirms at least one absolute truth: postmodernism is true. In the end, absolute truth becomes undeniable.

Further, absolute truth is naturally narrow and excludes its opposite. Two plus two equals four, with no other answer being possible. This point becomes critical as different belief systems and worldviews are compared. If one belief system has components that are proven true, then any competing belief system with contrary claims must be false. Also, we must keep in mind that absolute truth is not impacted by sincerity and desire. No matter how sincerely someone embraces a lie, it is still a lie. And no desire in the world can make something true that is false.

The answer of question one is that absolute truth exists. This being the case, agnosticism, postmodernism, relativism, and skepticism are all false positions.

This leads us to the next question of whether reason/logic can be used in matters of religion. Some say this is not possible, but—why not? The truth is, logic is vital when examining spiritual claims because it helps us understand why some claims should be excluded and others embraced. Logic is absolutely critical in dismantling pluralism (which says that all truth claims, even those that oppose each other, are equal and valid).

For example, Islam and Judaism claim that Jesus is not God, whereas Christianity claims He is. One of the core laws of logic is the law of non-contradiction, which says something cannot be both “A” and “non-A” at the same time and in the same sense. Applying this law to the claims Judaism, Islam, and Christianity means that one is right and the other two are wrong. Jesus cannot be both God and not God. Used properly, logic is a potent weapon against pluralism because it clearly demonstrates that contrary truth claims cannot both be true. This understanding topples the whole “true for you but not for me” mindset.

Logic also dispels the whole “all roads lead to the top of the mountain” analogy that pluralists use. Logic shows that each belief system has its own set of signs that point to radically different locations in the end. Logic shows that the proper illustration of a search for spiritual truth is more like a maze—one path makes it through to truth, while all others arrive at dead ends. All faiths may have some surface similarities, but they differ in major ways in their core doctrines.

The conclusion is that you can use reason and logic in matters of religion. That being the case, pluralism (the belief that all truth claims are equally true and valid) is ruled out because it is illogical and contradictory to believe that diametrically opposing truth claims can both be right.

Next comes the big question: does God exist? Atheists and naturalists (who do not accept anything beyond this physical world and universe) say “no.” While volumes have been written and debates have raged throughout history on this question, it is actually not difficult to answer. To give it proper attention, you must first ask this question: Why do we have something rather than nothing at all? In other words, how did you and everything around you get here? The argument for God can be presented very simply:

Something exists.
You do not get something from nothing.
Therefore, a necessary and eternal Being exists.

You cannot deny you exist because you have to exist in order to deny your own existence (which is self-defeating), so the first premise above is true. No one has ever demonstrated that something can come from nothing unless they redefine what ‘nothing’ is, so the second premise rings true. Therefore, the conclusion naturally follows—an eternal Being is responsible for everything that exists.

This is a position no thinking atheist denies; they just claim that the universe is that eternal being. However, the problem with that stance is that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning (the ‘big bang’). And everything that has a beginning must have a cause; therefore, the universe had a cause and is not eternal. Because the only two sources of eternality are an eternal universe (denied by all current empirical evidence) or an eternal Creator, the only logical conclusion is that God exists. Answering the question of God’s existence in the affirmative rules out atheism as a valid belief system.

Now, this conclusion says nothing about what kind of God exists, but amazingly enough, it does do one sweeping thing—it rules out all pantheistic religions. All pantheistic worldviews say that the universe is God and is eternal. And this assertion is false. So, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and all other pantheistic religions are ruled out as valid belief systems.

Further, we learn some interesting things about this God who created the universe. He is:

• Supernatural in nature (as He exists outside of His creation)
• Incredibly powerful (to have created all that is known)
• Eternal (self-existent, as He exists outside of time and space)
• Omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it)
• Timeless and changeless (He created time)
• Immaterial (because He transcends space)
• Personal (the impersonal can’t create personality)
• Necessary (as everything else depends on Him)
• Infinite and singular (as you cannot have two infinites)
• Diverse yet has unity (as all multiplicity implies a prior singularity)
• Intelligent (supremely, to create everything)
• Purposeful (as He deliberately created everything)
• Moral (no moral law can exist without a lawgiver)
• Caring (or no moral laws would have been given)

This Being exhibits characteristics very similar to the God of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which interestingly enough, are the only core faiths left standing after atheism and pantheism have been eliminated. Note also that one of the big questions in life (origins) is now answered: we know where we came from.

This leads to the next question: can we know God? At this point, the need for religion is replaced by something more important—the need for revelation. If mankind is to know this God well, it is up to God to reveal Himself to His creation. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all claim to have a book that is God’s revelation to man, but the question is which (if any) is actually true? Pushing aside minor differences, the two core areas of dispute are 1) the New Testament of the Bible 2) the person of Jesus Christ. Islam and Judaism both claim the New Testament of the Bible is untrue in what it claims, and both deny that Jesus is God incarnate, while Christianity affirms both to be true.

There is no faith on the planet that can match the mountains of evidence that exist for Christianity. From the voluminous number of ancient manuscripts, to the very early dating of the documents written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses (some only 15 years after Christ’s death), to the multiplicity of the accounts (nine authors in 27 books of the New Testament), to the archaeological evidence—none of which has ever contradicted a single claim the New Testament makes—to the fact that the apostles went to their deaths claiming they had seen Jesus in action and that He had come back from the dead, Christianity sets the bar in terms of providing the proof to back up its claims. The New Testament’s historical authenticity—that it conveys a truthful account of the actual events as they occurred—is the only right conclusion to reach once all the evidence has been examined.

When it comes to Jesus, one finds a very curious thing about Him—He claimed to be God in the flesh. Jesus own words (e.g., “Before Abraham was born I AM”), His actions (e.g., forgiving sins, accepting worship), His sinless and miraculous life (which He used to prove His truth claims over opposing claims), and His resurrection all support His claims to be God. The New Testament writers affirm this fact over and over again in their writings.

Now, if Jesus is God, then what He says must be true. And if Jesus said that the Bible is inerrant and true in everything it says (which He did), this must mean that the Bible is true in what it proclaims. As we have already learned, two competing truth claims cannot both be right. So anything in the Islamic Koran or writings of Judaism that contradict the Bible cannot be true. In fact, both Islam and Judaism fail since they both say that Jesus is not God incarnate, while the evidence says otherwise. And because we can indeed know God (because He has revealed Himself in His written Word and in Christ), all forms of agnosticism are refuted. Lastly, another big question of life is answered—that of ethics—as the Bible contains clear instructions on how mankind ought to live.

This same Bible proclaims that God cares deeply for mankind and wishes all to know Him intimately. In fact, He cares so much that He became a man to show His creation exactly what He is like. There are many men who have sought to be God, but only one God who sought to be man so He could save those He deeply loves from an eternity separated from Him. This fact demonstrates the existential relevancy of Christianity and also answers that last two big questions of life—meaning and destiny. Each person has been designed by God for a purpose, and each has a destiny that awaits him—one of eternal life with God or eternal separation from Him. This deduction (and the point of God becoming a man in Christ) also refutes Deism, which says God is not interested in the affairs of mankind.

In the end, we see that ultimate truth about God can be found and the worldview maze successfully navigated by testing various truth claims and systematically pushing aside falsehoods so that only the truth remains. Using the tests of logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and existential relevancy, coupled with asking the right questions, yields truthful and reasonable conclusions about religion and God. Everyone should agree that the only reason to believe something is that it is true—nothing more. Sadly, true belief is a matter of the will, and no matter how much logical evidence is presented, some will still choose to deny the God who is there and miss the one true path to harmony with Him.

[MrSplitshot]

Interesting read, Waterdog. Thanks for sharing.

[Hlleonard]

There is nothing in the logical world that leads to a belief in the supernatural.. People debate this endlessly, there is a reason most scientific minds don't accept a supernatural origin of all we see.. Faith is a great thing for those who have it but just because you believe doesn't make it so..

[sweetwater]

There is nothing in the logical world that leads to a belief in the supernatural.. People debate this endlessly, there is a reason most scientific minds don't accept a supernatural origin of all we see.. Faith is a great thing for those who have it but just because you believe doesn't make it so..

Albert Einstein was a deist-a believer in an impersonal creator. My favorite quote of his concerning religion is, "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God."