froze

[dragmerc]

i bet the cave men were wringing their hands when they came out of the last ice age.
reckon they bought a tesla?

[ZoraSpook]

Krogers, Walmart, Meijer's, and Save-A-Lot migratory bird observers have reported in 2022 the migratation of frozen turkeys to their stores came later than in prior years. Similarly, it was noted cranberry and sweet potatoes seemed to also migrate later than expected.

An indepth study by the world's foremost environmentalists has conclude these alterations in migrator behavior may have resulted from corresponding reduced availability of fossil fuels. The environmentalists concluded that if fossil fuel availability continues to experience decreased availability, at some point, when there is no fossil fuel available, turkey, sweet potatoes, and cranberries migration patterns may be dramatically altered. A volunteer envirnmental group in Southern California is now conducting experiements and product developments of back packs that Turkeys could wear capable of carrying 3 sweet potatoes, and 6 ounces of cranberry sauce. If the Turkeys prove physically capable and the newly developed back testing is favaorable, researchers projected individual bird migration could be routed to future retail locations for on-site processing and retail sales. The California Highway patrol has volunteered Patrol Units to escort the projected back-packed Turkey flocks.

[Buzzy]

The most accurate method to measure a process is to start those observations from the inception of that process. In so doing you have a baseline to measure deviation from. Migratory bird studies that started in 1970 were not at the inception point of the bird migratory process. So meausrements taken today can not conclude that what is observed now is the processes norm, or a deviation from normality. For all we know what we are seeing today maybe be the norm, and the migratory processes we have been familiar with (duck hunters) may have been an abnormal phases the process is now self correcting.

Astounding, to think observation of migratory patterns is only 50 years old is remarkable. You can even see the laws that were passed 110 years ago on the sale of wild game. Clearly they were observing something right? But no you have to go off of a national org start date to try and say that the impacts on migratory patterns are normal and will be fine. The things that changed climate before were once every 100,000 years volcano eruptions or meteors hitting the earth. Since the industrial revolution there have been no major events yet we have somehow raised changed the climate like one of those events only making it worse every year.

The climate does change but we are forcing the issue.

[ZoraSpook]

Astounding, to think observation of migratory patterns is only 50 years old is remarkable. You can even see the laws that were passed 110 years ago on the sale of wild game. Clearly they were observing something right? But no you have to go off of a national org start date to try and say that the impacts on migratory patterns are normal and will be fine. The things that changed climate before were once every 100,000 years volcano eruptions or meteors hitting the earth. Since the industrial revolution there have been no major events yet we have somehow raised changed the climate like one of those events only making it worse every year.

The climate does change but we are forcing the issue.

Good points. Here's the reference that gave me dates I quoted. See what ya think. Note some of the early observations about migratory porcesses. And to be fair yes, observation porcesses have dramtically advanced. https://www.audubon.org/magazine/spr...-learned-about

The laws then were to keep hunters from destroying migratory birds sir! Not concerns about environment.
Migratory Bird Treaty Act passes in 1918 guides "the taking, possession, transportation, sale, purchase, barter, importation, exportation, and banding or marking of migratory birds.

So infact the concern for the birds is not environmental, its to make sure they are at your favorite hunting spot so you can blow them out of the sky....right? So you and Stripernut are more worried about preserving your hiunting trips, than the birds you prey upon? Is that right? Or just making sure you preserve enough birds so they will be availabe for your hunting trips?

So how does one declare themselve to be a concerned CONSERVATIONIST, and at the same time prey on the spieces they seek to protect? Is that a little of "Take care of the ducks I want to shoot".

Yep, I'm confused :-)

[Buzzy]

Good points. Here's the reference that gave me dates I quoted. See what ya think. Note some of the early observations about migratory porcesses. And to be fair yes, observation porcesses have dramtically advanced. https://www.audubon.org/magazine/spr...-learned-about

The laws then were to keep hunters from destroying migratory birds sir! Not concerns about environment.
Migratory Bird Treaty Act passes in 1918 guides "the taking, possession, transportation, sale, purchase, barter, importation, exportation, and banding or marking of migratory birds.

So infact the concern for the birds is not environmental, its to make sure they are at your favorite hunting spot so you can blow them out of the sky....right? So you and Stripernut are more worried about preserving your hiunting trips, than the birds you prey upon? Is that right? Or just making sure you preserve enough birds so they will be availabe for your hunting trips?

So how does one declare themselve to be a concerned CONSERVATIONIST, and at the same time prey on the spieces they seek to protect? Is that a little of "Take care of the ducks I want to shoot".

Yep, I'm confused :-)

You are using the same logic and rationale as the democrats making people out to be racist.

The bold in your comment is something that I want to focus on because they are absolutely foolish. The birds themselves and their patterns plus number of birds are an environmental issue. And the laws that were made and reflect that we have a DIRECT impact on the total number of game and migratory patterns. Mostly detrimental. Habitat and hunting are intertwined, and to try and separate the two is impossible.

Any reasonable "conservationist" can make that connection.

[ZoraSpook]

You are using the same logic and rationale as the democrats making people out to be racist.

The bold in your comment is something that I want to focus on because they are absolutely foolish. The birds themselves and their patterns plus number of birds are an environmental issue. And the laws that were made and reflect that we have a DIRECT impact on the total number of game and migratory patterns. Mostly detrimental. Habitat and hunting are intertwined, and to try and separate the two is impossible.

Any reasonable "conservationist" can make that connection.

Good points agina and I agree concservation and environment are hand in hand connected.

Next theory.

The reason the birds are leaving the area sooner is because they want to be gone before hunting season to avoid getting shot. Birds, and wildlife, learn from what they experience from us. So might it not be possible the ducks depart early from, and go to places where they have historically experience less gun fire and a more secure wholesome environment.

[dragmerc]

i'd say the wildfowl decline is directly related to loss of quail and rabbit in my area...loss of habitat.
it has nothing to do with temperature, just a bunch of houses where there used to be open fields.
roundup weed killer kills more wildlife than a 1 degree temperature rise.

[Buzzy]

Good points agina and I agree concservation and environment are hand in hand connected.

Next theory.

The reason the birds are leaving the area sooner is because they want to be gone before hunting season to avoid getting shot. Birds, and wildlife, learn from what they experience from us. So might it not be possible the ducks depart early from, and go to places where they have historically experience less gun fire and a more secure wholesome environment.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even if they arent that well formed.



To be more clear, fish dont know what fishing is, ducks dont know what hunting is. Food and habitat are the main driving factors towards what they do.

[Buzzy]

i'd say the wildfowl decline is directly related to loss of quail and rabbit in my area...loss of habitat.
it has nothing to do with temperature, just a bunch of houses where there used to be open fields.
roundup weed killer kills more wildlife than a 1 degree temperature rise.

Separating the two is impossible. A temperature rise creates loss of habitat. Don't jump on the side of the irrational.

You are right loss of habitat is the key factor but the loss of habitat is created by us and what we do to the surrounding environment.

[stripernut1]

Good points. Here's the reference that gave me dates I quoted. See what ya think. Note some of the early observations about migratory porcesses. And to be fair yes, observation porcesses have dramtically advanced. https://www.audubon.org/magazine/spr...-learned-about

The laws then were to keep hunters from destroying migratory birds sir! Not concerns about environment.
Migratory Bird Treaty Act passes in 1918 guides "the taking, possession, transportation, sale, purchase, barter, importation, exportation, and banding or marking of migratory birds.

So infact the concern for the birds is not environmental, its to make sure they are at your favorite hunting spot so you can blow them out of the sky....right? So you and Stripernut are more worried about preserving your hiunting trips, than the birds you prey upon? Is that right? Or just making sure you preserve enough birds so they will be availabe for your hunting trips?

So how does one declare themselve to be a concerned CONSERVATIONIST, and at the same time prey on the spieces they seek to protect? Is that a little of "Take care of the ducks I want to shoot".

Yep, I'm confused :-)

WRONG AGAIN , but who's surprised?
As much as I love to duck hunt ( been doing it for **** near 50 years) out of concern for declining numbers I have chosen to put it on hold until something turns around. Maybe leave something for the next generation. yeah its killing me not being waste deep in 35 degrees water at first light waiting for the sound of wings. I love it that much that a self imposed pause is worth it.
Hell I even ceased striper fishing back in June when it became painfully clear The fishery is in major distress.
So yeah, I walk the walk I don't just run my mouth about it.
Just wondering why you guys are so hellbent on trashing the planet?
And by the way evidently this little jib amd jab means more to you than it does me so you win.
Tell him what he's won Johnny!.
What do you mean "not a goddammit thing"?
Oh ok so this is awkward but you may have won (you didnt) but you're still an uninformed loser.
please have a merry Christmas 🎅

[ZoraSpook]

Separating the two is impossible. A temperature rise creates loss of habitat. Don't jump on the side of the irrational.

You are right loss of habitat is the key factor but the loss of habitat is created by us and what we do to the surrounding environment.

I don't disagree at all. Respect for the environment has to happen. And it is give and take. And those envirnomental concerns also have to be balanced against economic factors also.

[ZoraSpook]

WRONG AGAIN , but who's surprised?
As much as I love to duck hunt ( been doing it for **** near 50 years) out of concern for declining numbers I have chosen to put it on hold until something turns around. Maybe leave something for the next generation. yeah its killing me not being waste deep in 35 degrees water at first light waiting for the sound of wings. I love it that much that a self imposed pause is worth it.
Hell I even ceased striper fishing back in June when it became painfully clear The fishery is in major distress.
So yeah, I walk the walk I don't just run my mouth about it.
Just wondering why you guys are so hellbent on trashing the planet?
And by the way evidently this little jib amd jab means more to you than it does me so you win.
Tell him what he's won Johnny!.
What do you mean "not a goddammit thing"?
Oh ok so this is awkward but you may have won (you didnt) but you're still an uninformed loser.
please have a merry Christmas 

Wasn't looking to win, looking to discuss and share and learn. And yep this ultra eco crap with no regard for industry, economy, and the ability of a citizen to get fule to drive to work grates me. Only thing I seek is a balanced approach. Just like fishing or duck hunting where limits are set to thin out over populations and support the sport yet maintain the species. That's all this kid wants to see. Just a bit tired of the eco -enviro fanatics.