Our Educational Standards

[bassin_bug]

I apologize for the length of this post but I'm aggravated and guess I just need to vent to people who understand.

I think I've read the posts of an educator on this board but am not sure. Anyway, if he's here, I have a few questions for him. To all the others, I welcome your input.

Recently a lot has been said about the need for improved math skills in the school systems. Today I read an article in our local newspaper that said when new math requirements are implemented, there will be an increase in dropout rates. The program is supposed to begin first with eighth grade students. He also went on to say that it will not show its effectiveness until about 2013. I'm having problems understanding why an increase in dropout rates when, in times past, Algebra was a requirement for all eighth grade students. What is your thoughts on this?

I have to admit that I'm extremely annoyed that so many of the school systems have dumbed down. As a result, I have a very precious, soon to be 13 year-old, that I don't get to spend quality time with because she is away in The Academy of Math and Sciences. There was no school program here that could challenge her enough. Why doesn't public schools offer advanced curriculums for promising students? She is a member of the International Baccalaureate Program which is a stringent worldwide educational program. In addition to the math and sciences, she has had to learn two foreign languages; she has already aced Spanish and is working on her French.

Three weeks ago she went to math competitions at NASA and science competitions in Orlando. She came out with the highest score in her group. She loves competing against college students and has done extemely well but my question comes back to, "Why can't ALL students in public schools have the same opportunities?" There are so many of them that are not getting a fair shot at being their best because the educational system is holding them back. What can be done? If there ever was a need for stimulus money, it is needed to raise the standard of education in this country.

[GeoFisher]

I apologize for the length of this post but I'm aggravated and guess I just need to vent to people who understand.

I think I've read the posts of an educator on this board but am not sure. Anyway, if he's here, I have a few questions for him. To all the others, I welcome your input.

Recently a lot has been said about the need for improved math skills in the school systems. Today I read an article in our local newspaper that said when new math requirements are implemented, there will be an increase in dropout rates. The program is supposed to begin first with eighth grade students. He also went on to say that it will not show its effectiveness until about 2013. I'm having problems understanding why an increase in dropout rates when, in times past, Algebra was a requirement for all eighth grade students. What is your thoughts on this?

I have to admit that I'm extremely annoyed that so many of the school systems have dumbed down. As a result, I have a very precious, soon to be 13 year-old, that I don't get to spend quality time with because she is away in The Academy of Math and Sciences. There was no school program here that could challenge her enough. Why doesn't public schools offer advanced curriculums for promising students? She is a member of the International Baccalaureate Program which is a stringent worldwide educational program. In addition to the math and sciences, she has had to learn two foreign languages; she has already aced Spanish and is working on her French.

Three weeks ago she went to math competitions at NASA and science competitions in Orlando. She came out with the highest score in her group. She loves competing against college students and has done extemely well but my question comes back to, "Why can't ALL students in public schools have the same opportunities?" There are so many of them that are not getting a fair shot at being their best because the educational system is holding them back. What can be done? If there ever was a need for stimulus money, it is needed to raise the standard of education in this country.

I'm not a teacher, but do have a dog in this fight.

First.......I COMPLETELY AGREE with what you are saying......we've dumbed down our requirements........We now teach to pass a TEST, not to TEACH a curriculum.....if that makes sense.

My daughters.....both in high school and both pretty good students, learn a lot about reading, writing, and math, but have VERY LIMITED exposure to history, and specifically AMERICAN HISTORY.......most history classes they are exposed to have LEFT WING nutjobs teaching them, and they get nothing but............well LEFT WING propaganda.......

Second.........the BIGGEST problem I see in this country is the fact that not everyone is cut out to be a college graduate, or to enter the workforce as doctors, lawyers, IT professionals, nurses, etc, etc, etc.

We no longer teach shop, welding, metal work, small engine repair, automotive, etc, etc, in ANY high schools.......these are valuable skills, and SHOULD be offered.......

AND along those lines......we have outsourced pretty much ALL of our manufacturing to somewhere else to get it cheaper.

I don't know what the answers are, but I hope, we can get a handle on this and start moving in the right direction.

Finally.........if there is anything that can come out of this economy.........maybe, just maybe some new NON union manufacturing will crop up, and MAYBE, just MAYBE, we can start building some stuff here.

Later,

Geo

[mhall]

Good post by both. George good points on liberal junk only being taught and learning hands on skills. There isn't a darn thing wrong with a young person learning a vocational skill versus being a rocket scientist. Some people have to do hands on work and it can be quite monitarily rewarding to master in certain fields. Good topic and good points made. Bug it sounds like you have a true Rhode scholar on your hands, congratulations..

[bassin_bug]

Good post by both. George good points on liberal junk only being taught and learning hands on skills. There isn't a darn thing wrong with a young person learning a vocational skill versus being a rocket scientist. Some people have to do hands on work and it can be quite monitarily rewarding to master in certain fields. Good topic and good points made. Bug it sounds like you have a true Rhode scholar on your hands, congratulations..

Some of my most memorable high school fun was when the girls went to Home Economics class in a room right beside the Vocational Agriculture building. That's where the boys went to learn the real nuts and bolts of work. Those guys learned farming, animals, woodworking, lawn mower repair, small construction (bird houses), painting, welding, and their favorite of all, building a "hot rod" car that was donated by the local car dealer. He made a donation each year. Every boy in school signed up for "Vo-Ag" because they wanted to make that old dead car roar to life and become the next shiny rod with a muffler that "talked back." (loud)

In the Home Ec. room next door, we were learning proper manners (lol), sewing, and cooking. The windows were always raised in the Vocational Ag building and, girls will be girls. You can't imagine how many raw biscuits were fired through those open windows. If we spit on it first, it would stick to whomever or whatever it hit.

I've always believed that not everyone was meant to go to college. Each of us is unique and have a place to fill in life and nobody else can do it for us. When it comes to earning a living, I think we already know what type of work we enjoy and are best suited for.

[Col Forbin]

I'm not a teacher, but do have a dog in this fight.

First.......I COMPLETELY AGREE with what you are saying......we've dumbed down our requirements........We now teach to pass a TEST, not to TEACH a curriculum.....if that makes sense.

My daughters.....both in high school and both pretty good students, learn a lot about reading, writing, and math, but have VERY LIMITED exposure to history, and specifically AMERICAN HISTORY.......most history classes they are exposed to have LEFT WING nutjobs teaching them, and they get nothing but............well LEFT WING propaganda.......

Second.........the BIGGEST problem I see in this country is the fact that not everyone is cut out to be a college graduate, or to enter the workforce as doctors, lawyers, IT professionals, nurses, etc, etc, etc.

We no longer teach shop, welding, metal work, small engine repair, automotive, etc, etc, in ANY high schools.......these are valuable skills, and SHOULD be offered.......

AND along those lines......we have outsourced pretty much ALL of our manufacturing to somewhere else to get it cheaper.

I don't know what the answers are, but I hope, we can get a handle on this and start moving in the right direction.

Finally.........if there is anything that can come out of this economy.........maybe, just maybe some new NON union manufacturing will crop up, and MAYBE, just MAYBE, we can start building some stuff here.

Later,

Geo

I thik it varies from place to place concerning the quality of education students recieve. I think the biggest problem with public schools are the lack of parent involvement, that is why I am extremely pleased to see most of you take such an active role in your childs educaion. I have been working in schools for the past 10 years, and I agree - the test are only form of accountability - and therefore it runs the show. I strongly disagree with this. However, many schools, especailly those with strong leaderships will excel, not only in education offered, but programs offered. The fact is that kids do have options. I currently work at a vocational technical center as part of our highschool where programs range from computer engineering, construction, auto body / tech., to an advanced welding program. So the programs are available.

Bug - education is currently undergoing alot of changes due to budget crunches and economical issues, and unfortunately the first to go are the advanced or gifted programs - but you as a parent have every right to insist and/or demand that your childs educational needs are met. Attend your local school board meetings - you will be surprised what you may accomplish. Most if not all school board members have a child within that system and have the same feelings you do - although they may not be vocal about it.

The primary goals of most schools (especially rural schools) is to prevent drop-out rates. As far as "dumbing" down the standards - that could not be farther from the truth. We now have national standards that require a level of competency among students, specifically in the area of Math and Science. I am somewhat against these, as it causes schools to require the same level of expectations for all students - including your special education students as well as your gifted students. No Child Left Behind brought all of this about. This causes the students that excel and meet those students to be somewhat left behind - they have met the national goal, so why do anything else. They also require students that have no ambition to go to college, or those that would rather learn a skilled trade to be subject to the exact same educational standards. So the programs have begun to be streamlined to ensure all students can meet the same standards, rather than offer a variety of programs to suit a variety of needs. The meeting of these national standards brought on by NCLB, has consumed every district not only in this state but all states. I work in the district I do now, because I agree with the programs they offer - we are not limitting ourself to the pre-college curriculum as most of the state schools have now gone to (that and it is 5 minutes from KY lake).

George, you are right too. It is odd, most history teachers are liberal (I don't know why). Most Science teachers are conservative (???). That being said, most I know keep their own ideas and political agendas out of the classroom. I am sure there are a few bad apples either way you look at it. I do know that I know many educators that have always voted republican, that have recently voted Democrat strictly based on NCLB and republican education agendas. NCLB may look good on paper, however, in practice it is extremely flawed, and Republican Politicians seem to think it is great. You do know that two of my least favorite politicians came up with that - G.W. Bush and Ted Kennedy (Scary duo there).

I can give you all a few hints on being heard at your local board meetings. Call your board of education and find out when they are having meetings - most meet at least once a month. Have yourself put on the agenda for the upcoming meeting - so they must alot time for you and to hear your concerns on programming. They won't make immediate changes - but you will start to draw support from other fellow parents. Call monthly a week or two before the meeting and repeatedly have yourself added to that agenda. You all pay local property taxes, and therefore have a right to be an active part of the board of Ed. meetings.