Teaching to the Test

[Grumpy]

In another post on this board, there are references to "Teaching to the Test". No offense intened to anyone, but could someone explain to me what is meant by: "Teaching to the Test"?

The reason I ask is, all of the time I was in school (admittedly a long time ago), we were tested on every subject several times during the year and a final at the end of the year. I have always thought that testing was a normal part of teaching, in order to determine if each student was learning what was being taught.

I don't understand if people are objecting to children being tested or if they are objecting to the way the teachers are teaching.

Thanks,

Grumpy

[Col Forbin]

In another post on this board, there are references to "Teaching to the Test". No offense intened to anyone, but could someone explain to me what is meant by: "Teaching to the Test"?

The reason I ask is, all of the time I was in school (admittedly a long time ago), we were tested on every subject several times during the year and a final at the end of the year. I have always thought that testing was a normal part of teaching, in order to determine if each student was learning what was being taught.

I don't understand if people are objecting to children being tested or if they are objecting to the way the teachers are teaching.

Thanks,

Grumpy

I think it may be an objection to the way the teacher is teaching, but the underlying issue is the teacher is now required to teach this way. As an educator, we now have little room to teach what we, the kids, or the parents and community seems to be really important. State and Federal policies (particularly No Child Left Behind) has put so much weight on testing accountability that most teachers have to follow a strict and approved curriculum. Teachers have always taught a general curriculum, and varied it according to community needs. For example, in some rural agriculture communities, very few kids will attend college, and instruction could be related so that it benefits them after high school, rather than a college prep curriculum. All acountability now lies on the results of State and National assessment and performance scores. If you as a teacher do not teach so that students can best perform on these assessments, you won't have a jog. If the school as a whole does not meet these standards, assistance and restructuring will be mandatorily provided to them so that they can best perform on these tests. You have no room for a personalized or localized curriculum. In the past we were tested on everything, and schools wanted to perform well, but it was used more for measuring student progress so that changes could be made to best educate the children in "your" school. There has always been some level of accountability, however, it was not the only way a school was measured. Now, in the eyes of the state and federal government (as outlined on in NCLB) it is the only measure of student and school performance, and almost no other factors are taken into consideration.

Basically, the problem with education is not the teachers fault - it is a faulty accountability system. Teachers were once hired, praised and rewarded for a varied and creative self designed curriculum. We now are required to become drones regurgetating information and lessons that will benefit the schools performance on these assessments. The creativity has been sucked out of the school system, and that reflects on teacher attititudes. All teachers I know, got into education for the right reasons - however, many are going to new professions because all the fun and joy of personally benefitting students and having a possitive impact on "their" life is now gone due the pressure put on them for adequate progress on standardized accountability and performance assessments. Students and teachers should be assessed on future success and preperation for that future, instead they are only assessed by stadardized means to meet assessment guidelines.

I haven't yet lost my passion for education, but I the pressure to ensure performance accountability weighs heavy on my mind in everything I do.

[stratosjoe]

Grumpy, I am old fart and when I was snot nose you had to listen well and read your homework and hope you learned what was going to be on the test. My wife is a teacher (old enough to retire ) she explained that now they teach you the info you need and test you on just that info. the problem being that the incidental info is never gained this has far reaching effects ,such as. kids not wanting to learn to read for enjoyment. This to some degree also takes away from someones interest in info leading up to the test subject. Example , when I was a kid we had to learn about the gettysburg address to the point of memorizing it. in the course of learning that i became very interested the armament used as well which went on to create a lifetime NRA member. By todays standard they would have you concentrate on the speech and nothing much else

[Grumpy]

Thanks for the information Guys. I think I understand your meanings but I am still not sure that "teaching to the test" is a bad idea.

Either way, I don't think that today's kids are getting a REAL EDUCATION and I feel something more must be done AND I DON'T MEAN BY THE GOVERNMENT. It does seem to me that our education system(s) is DUMBING DOWN the students, from pre-school through College Graduate School. And don't try to blame NO CHILD LEFT BEHING because that program was instituted to try to overcome the problems in the education system that were evident and existing long before that progrom started.

I really don't understand why with all of the supposed advancements in educatiion, people are graduating from High School and College and still can't read & write and can't do simple math, such as making change at a cash register (on either side of the cash register). The education of children now starts in DAY CARE with pre-pre-pre-Kindergarten and at an early age they begin using Computer education programs which progress and advance all the way through High School and College, yet, in my opinion, a great many of the students that are graduating are DUMBER THAN ROCKS.

Not only are they not able to do reading, writing and 'rithmatic, the don't seem to be able to think and definately can't carry on a decent coversation.

I am not looking for an answer, I just wanted to vent about what I see is a big problem for our country.

Grumpy

[bassin_bug]

On another thread Col Forbin wrote a lot of opinions and recommendations about the educational system. He said, "as far as "dumbing" down the standards - that could not be farther from the truth." WRONG, WRONG, and wrong again. In the State of Alabama it has already happened and the blacks used the "No Child Left Behind" program to completely destroy what it was meant to accomplish.

I want to make it clear that I am not racist but lets call a 'spade' a spade. First they demanded "equality" in numbers in the black-white ratio in the larger high schools. Those requests were met and students were bused from their own community to the larger school. Then comes the cry, "No Student Left Behind" is too hard for black kids; they can't learn all this hard stuff." Even the black educators went to the Board of Education meetings and to the State Board of Education. As a result the programs were dumbed down, the ghetto slang, lingo, jive language also had to be accepted. As a result the white children weren't learning anything but "dey jes ain't doin nuttin like it usta be, ya know how dat are. We axed em ta ease up and deys don't lissen."

As a result of the dumbing down, two private schools are in the county and are self-supporting. They absolutely refuse to take county, state, or federal monies in order to keep the government out and the schools can hold to a higher standard of education. Call it racist or whatever, but the bottom line is that blacks and Mexicans are not accepted and there is no bullsheet about it. Those schools are for education and students have to meet stringent requirements. The parents pay plenty for the children to be educated but it is working with astronomical success. Not one of them has ever been rejected by a University.

It's a fallacy to believe you can attend all the PTA-PTO meetings and yap a better standard of education into existence. Same with the county and State Boards of Education. They are dancing to the tune of the whining blacks so they can keep their job as a member of the BOE. It doesn't take much conversation with one of them to realize they just don't get the importance of quality education.

Most of the teachers I know spend more time standing around in the teachers lounge, arms folded, trying to look like Nancy Pelosi and don't give a hoot in Hades what the students are doing while they are out of the classroom.

Again I want to make it clear that I'm not a racist but I call it as I see it and I'm a straight shooter when it comes to education. I received a note from a college student who is graduating in May and the last sentence said, "I have to go now; have to run some aarunds." Graduating from college and can't even spell errands! It's easy to recognize she didn't graduate from one of the private schools and I'm anxious to know which law firm will be hiring her.

[kygorski]

My first wife had 12 yrs of parochial schooling. My children only had 8yrs of parochial education. they are both college grads, both with high honors, this couldn't have happened at a public school in the community they lived in.My son is now a special ed teacher, and he says he is mandatwed to teach to the test.Our public schools are doing the job they could because of politics, both federal and local standardsare used to maximize scores, and to ghell with education,So our private ivy league schools are the standard? most of CEOs with MBAs came from there, what did they accomplish with that "gold standard" education?No ethics, no moral standards, just the bottom line.Lately that bottom line has been the home to the bottom feeders of our society.

[DJD]

On another thread Col Forbin wrote a lot of opinions and recommendations about the educational system. He said, "as far as "dumbing" down the standards - that could not be farther from the truth." WRONG, WRONG, and wrong again. In the State of Alabama it has already happened and the blacks used the "No Child Left Behind" program to completely destroy what it was meant to accomplish.

I want to make it clear that I am not racist but lets call a 'spade' a spade. First they demanded "equality" in numbers in the black-white ratio in the larger high schools. Those requests were met and students were bused from their own community to the larger school. Then comes the cry, "No Student Left Behind" is too hard for black kids; they can't learn all this hard stuff." Even the black educators went to the Board of Education meetings and to the State Board of Education. As a result the programs were dumbed down, the ghetto slang, lingo, jive language also had to be accepted. As a result the white children weren't learning anything but "dey jes ain't doin nuttin like it usta be, ya know how dat are. We axed em ta ease up and deys don't lissen."

As a result of the dumbing down, two private schools are in the county and are self-supporting. They absolutely refuse to take county, state, or federal monies in order to keep the government out and the schools can hold to a higher standard of education. Call it racist or whatever, but the bottom line is that blacks and Mexicans are not accepted and there is no bullsheet about it. Those schools are for education and students have to meet stringent requirements. The parents pay plenty for the children to be educated but it is working with astronomical success. Not one of them has ever been rejected by a University.

It's a fallacy to believe you can attend all the PTA-PTO meetings and yap a better standard of education into existence. Same with the county and State Boards of Education. They are dancing to the tune of the whining blacks so they can keep their job as a member of the BOE. It doesn't take much conversation with one of them to realize they just don't get the importance of quality education.

Most of the teachers I know spend more time standing around in the teachers lounge, arms folded, trying to look like Nancy Pelosi and don't give a hoot in Hades what the students are doing while they are out of the classroom.

Again I want to make it clear that I'm not a racist but I call it as I see it and I'm a straight shooter when it comes to education. I received a note from a college student who is graduating in May and the last sentence said, "I have to go now; have to run some aarunds." Graduating from college and can't even spell errands! It's easy to recognize she didn't graduate from one of the private schools and I'm anxious to know which law firm will be hiring her.

I agree and it's sad that you have to be on the defense about being a racist. The whole country has that mind set now.
My sister teaches 3rd grade in Florida and even at that grade they deal with a different standard for kids who cannot communicate properly in english. Or have a social excuse for their attendance record, attitude or lack of respect. The whole class suffers but that's the way it is.....

[Col Forbin]

Most of the teachers I know spend more time standing around in the teachers lounge, arms folded, trying to look like Nancy Pelosi and don't give a hoot in Hades what the students are doing while they are out of the classroom.

Couldn't be farther from the truth - or you need to get out and meet some teachers. I've never worked in a school with a lounge. Wouldn't go in it if I had one, always too busy, or on here!!! LOL

[GeoFisher]

Couldn't be farther from the truth - or you need to get out and meet some teachers. I've never worked in a school with a lounge. Wouldn't go in it if I had one, always too busy, or on here!!! LOL

Every school I went to had a lounge..............and EVERY school my kids have been to have a lounge.

AND Col, there are more teachers like those described by bassin bug than the ones you describe.......

While I'm not in education, I've been to enough open houses, PTO meetings, etc, etc, with both of my daughters to know the education system in this country is SEVERELY corrupted by NIM-WIT LIBERALS.

Later,

Geo

[Col Forbin]

Every school I went to had a lounge..............and EVERY school my kids have been to have a lounge.

AND Col, there are more teachers like those described by bassin bug than the ones you describe.......

While I'm not in education, I've been to enough open houses, PTO meetings, etc, etc, with both of my daughters to know the education system in this country is SEVERELY corrupted by NIM-WIT LIBERALS.

Later,

Geo

It's funny how you can go to a few after school get togethers and become an expert on the education system. I guess if I get my oil changed enough, I am a mechanic. I really take offense to this. PTO has little impact on what we do in school - it has no authority for any school decisions - and therefore reflect nothing that goes on in school, open houses are dog and pony shows. The truth is there are more great teachers than bad ones. Every school I have been in, observed, or worked in, no longer has a lounge - they have a copy room, and that is it.

If I wanted advice on education, I would ask someone that is involved in education. I have spent the last 10 last ten years working directly in school systems, and have served on state and national level committees to improve education - but somehow any thing I say on this topic, you will discredit.

[Devils Horse]

The public school 'problem' is a social problem. I don't really believe it can be fixed because politics and 'social justice' play too big a part in the education system. Money by the trainload won't fix a system who pulls up underachievers by pulling down achievers.

Long as America de-emphasizes personal responsibility, glorifies single motherhood, and large numbers of kids who don't even know who their father is are thrown in, there will be big problems in the public school system. The schools are a reflection of our society's problems.

A private school, particularly a church sponsored school is the only way to assure your child a shot at a good education. They wear uniforms or adhere to a strict dress code, and that eliminates a lot of baggage right off the bat. They have real prayers instead of moronic moments of silence, say the pledge with God still in it, and reinforce the values kids are (or should be) getting at home.

The standards are high and they are enforced, your child will not be promoted to the next grade without the minimum proficiency for that grade. Yes, they have tests to ascertain proficiency, I don't see how else to do it. The kids (of all races) don't even know what ebonics and a lot of other garbage being passed of as teaching techniques even are.

The biggest factor is most parents willing to fork out private school money are engaged in their kids' schoolwork. Parent involvement is the absolute key (thank god I have my wife).

Writing the check is painful, paying sky high taxes for a public education system we don't use is painful, but when my FIRST grade daughter reads us a 4th grade level book aloud, my wife and I look at each other and smile.

[DJD]

The public school 'problem' is a social problem. I don't really believe it can be fixed because politics and 'social justice' play too big a part in the education system. Money by the trainload won't fix a system who pulls up underachievers by pulling down achievers.

Long as America de-emphasizes personal responsibility, glorifies single motherhood, and large numbers of kids who don't even know who their father is are thrown in, there will be big problems in the public school system. The schools are a reflection of our society's problems.

A private school, particularly a church sponsored school is the only way to assure your child a shot at a good education. They wear uniforms or adhere to a strict dress code, and that eliminates a lot of baggage right off the bat. They have real prayers instead of moronic moments of silence, say the pledge with God still in it, and reinforce the values kids are (or should be) getting at home.

The standards are high and they are enforced, your child will not be promoted to the next grade without the minimum proficiency for that grade. Yes, they have tests to ascertain proficiency, I don't see how else to do it. The kids (of all races) don't even know what ebonics and a lot of other garbage being passed of as teaching techniques even are.

The biggest factor is most parents willing to fork out private school money are engaged in their kids' schoolwork. Parent involvement is the absolute key (thank god I have my wife).

Writing the check is painful, paying sky high taxes for a public education system we don't use is painful, but when my FIRST grade daughter reads us a 4th grade level book aloud, my wife and I look at each other and smile.

Good post Jim.
I'll start off by saying that noone ever accused me of being smart so when I say that I cannot help my daughter with some of her Math Homework you don't have to laugh too hard. She is in the 6th grade and I cringe when I see some of her work load.

She is working on a paper right now about the "New Deal" and the Depression....how appropriate huh? It's scary to read those books because it seems like we are following the text as a game plan to fail right now.

Yeah we spend some serious coin to send her to a local Christian Academy but it's worth it.