Gosnell GUILTY of Murder......as it should be

[DJD]

Killing a baby "legally" while inside its mother at 13 weeks gestation....or killing a baby right after it has been born....

Maybe the former seems easier to deal with because you can't see the baby, but either way, you're killing a baby.

I'm sorry, but the "line" has been blurry from the get-go, thus the great debate on when life begins and abortion. Liberals/Democrats in general condone abortion...ending the lives of babies for the sake of freedom and woman's right to choose.

Back before my wife got pregnant and before we had a child, I actually took a more moderate stance on abortion. I didn't really think that the government ought to make decisions about a woman's body...I thought it was really a woman's right to choose and none of my business. I've changed my stance. It has nothing to do with the woman's body or the woman's right to chose. This is a human life and somebody, albeit it our ridiculous government, has to protect it. There is right and there is wrong. Killing babies is wrong, whether they are a little peanut inside a womb or whether they are 9 months old and crawling across your living room floor. It's a living, breathing, heart-beating, life. The only scenarios that make the abortion debate even a question for me now are rape, incest, or a situation where the mother's life is at stake. Those are hard to deal with, no doubt. But at some point, God's will is just God's will. Killing innocent babies just doesn't ever seem to be on the "right" side of the argument for me anymore. Life is hard. People make mistakes and get pregnant when they weren't planning it, or can't afford it, or were drunk and don't even know the Daddy's name...but that still doesn't seem like justification for killing a baby.

I don't think there's any argument that the liberal/Democratic platform is pro-choice.

Well said. I have looked at this topic as yes or no with no gray area for the longest time and to me that's thinking with my heart. When I ask myself about special conditions like rape, incest, major birth defects or harmful to the mother it makes me pause and think with my head.
There has to be exceptions because it would be crazy to allow a mother to possibly die to have a baby born that may die as well during birth and from there it can be what if'd to death. So I'm torn on the subject as well..... If you bring Gods will into it then it's easy as no abortion but I still can't understand his will in this or alot of things. I try but I can't and that's a struggle I live with daily.
I don't agree with the extreme case of this so called Doctor that's for sure.

[MrSplitshot]

Well said. I have looked at this topic as yes or no with no gray area for the longest time and to me that's thinking with my heart. When I ask myself about special conditions like rape, incest, major birth defects or harmful to the mother it makes me pause and think with my head.
There has to be exceptions because it would be crazy to allow a mother to possibly die to have a baby born that may die as well during birth and from there it can be what if'd to death. So I'm torn on the subject as well..... If you bring Gods will into it then it's easy as no abortion but I still can't understand his will in this or alot of things. I try but I can't and that's a struggle I live with daily.
I don't agree with the extreme case of this so called Doctor that's for sure.

I do struggle with this one...no doubt...when it's a matter of extenuating circumstances like rape, incest, or health issues. As a means of birth control or as a means of not wanting to take responsibility for one's actions, I don't struggle with it at all. It should not be an option, in my opinion. Every man and every woman knows that anytime you put a P in a V, you can end up with a baby. That's just part of the deal. Most of us have rolled the dice in that little tango a time or twelve...LOL...right or wrong...and you live with the results, even when they aren't what you planned. A lot of folks get started that way and get blessed with wonderful kids and families that way too, albeit unplanned.

My moral struggle is that even though I feel this way about babies and abortion now, I think we ought to build an express lane on the courthouse steps for capital punishment. I'm a walking contradiction. LOL

[jcb]

My moral struggle is that even though I feel this way about babies and abortion now, I think we ought to build an express lane on the courthouse steps for capital punishment. I'm a walking contradiction. LOL

My objection to capital punishment is both spiritual and practical. Spiritual because I believe no one but God has the right to take life, and no one is beyond saving. David was a murderer. Moses was a murderer. That's pretty strong company.

Practical because innocent men and women have been killed in the name of justice. And the death penalty has never been a deterrent.

[Devils Horse]

I don't want to go back to the coat hanger and back room butcher days of pre Roe-V-Wade, but the so called women's rights groups have taken abortion too far. Those groups and their Democrat allies have gotten it to the point where a woman's right to kill her baby under almost any circumstances is regarded as an unassailable women's health issue. I don't see how that is right.

For the crimes Gosnell is guilty of, they should give him life without parole and make sure he's kept in with the general prison population. Maybe the 'Jefferey Dahmer Effect' would kick in and the planet earth could be rid of this piece of refuse.

[Mean Morone]

Well I guess I'm the odd ball extreme Right Winger on this one. Goznell should have the same thing done to him that he did to innocent babies. Start with the feet. Cut them off and put them in a jar. I think his limbs should be pulled off one at a time and then before he bleeds out we should snip his spine. Then throw him in the trash. The ones that would say this would be cruel and unusual punishment are the ones that would fight hard for abortion. What he did was kill babies that survived abortion attempts. The same thing that BO decided was the correct thing to do when he was a Senator in IL. The decision to abort superseded the babies right to life even if it survived the abortion attempt.

As far as rape and incest, I do agree that someone should pay the ultimate price, but I prefer the ones that are guilty. Not innocent babies. It doesn't make sense to me that the baby should be killed because it's father is guilty.

I do remember the hearings they had back when the slickster was in office about killing babies because the baby caused a threat to the mothers life. I'm pretty sure that charge was shot down. It is extremely rare if at all possible. Let the hate begin.

[Hlleonard]

Guys... I haven't tried to hide my stance on the abortion issue and because of that I have been chastised for that stance... I do not believe any rights a fetus might have outweigh the rights of s woman who is a citizen of this country....

I believe a lot of you seem to be wishy washey on the abortion issue, you either believe it is "wrong" or you believe it is not "wrong"... How is it ok to abort a fetus in "some" situations and not others... Most of you attempt to make the point that it is a "baby" regardless of whether or not it has been born... Beings you think that, is it ok to "kill" a baby after it is born ( after all it is the same to you) if it fits the criteria you set aside for giving the "ok" to abort a fetus.

[MrSplitshot]

I do not believe any rights a fetus might have outweigh the rights of s woman who is a citizen of this country....

So a woman should be able to abort a fetus (scientific way of saying "kill her baby") because she has the right to as an American? Up to what point? If it's got a heartbeat and breathing, I call it a "baby"...and I think it ought to have some rights, at least to life.

How is it ok to abort a fetus in "some" situations and not others... Most of you attempt to make the point that it is a "baby" regardless of whether or not it has been born... Beings you think that, is it ok to "kill" a baby after it is born ( after all it is the same to you) if it fits the criteria you set aside for giving the "ok" to abort a fetus.

I'm not sure that it should be OK to kill a baby in any situation...even in cases of rape and incest. Comment was made above about punishing those that are guilty, not punishing an innocent child. I think there's some common sense in that. I realize that carrying a baby after being raped would be horrible beyond imaginable though...tough.

Abortion is just a hard thing to debate...no doubt about it...

[Hlleonard]

So a woman should be able to abort a fetus (scientific way of saying "kill her baby") because she has the right to as an American? Up to what point? If it's got a heartbeat and breathing, I call it a "baby"...and I think it ought to have some rights, at least to life.



I'm not sure that it should be OK to kill a baby in any situation...even in cases of rape and incest. Comment was made above about punishing those that are guilty, not punishing an innocent child. I think there's some common sense in that. I realize that carrying a baby after being raped would be horrible beyond imaginable though...tough.

Abortion is just a hard thing to debate...no doubt about it...

--
It is a tough issue, if you are the supreme court you are damned if you do and damned if you don't... A line has to be drawn somewhere and mostly I agree with the courts on this issue.... I don't believe there is a right and a wrong.

[apb]

Difficult subject, I don't think there are any absolutely right answers. I would be interested to hear several women's views on the subject. After all, they have a much bigger role to play in the whole thing than men. I sometimes get the feeling that if men could get pregnant then you would find contraceptives much easier to come by and an abortion could be obtained as easily as a haircut. Anyway, my own view is a mix of those expressed already. In short: I do not like the idea of abortion as a method of contraception; I recognized that there are times when it is the most reasonable choice (e.g., life of the mother is at risk, rape, fetus is dead and will be stillborn); prefer the idea that it can be done safely; feel that it is a choice that should be made by those involved; and I have no desire to have my thoughts on this imposed on others. If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one and keep the government the hell out of the bedroom/doctor's office. It’s that simple.

To me, part of the problem that there is such a gray area in terms of what constitutes human life. To some, the moment the egg is fertilized, it’s a baby. At the other extreme, it does not reach human baby status until it could exist outside the womb on its own. That is something that science has to be able to answer for us. For example, many eggs that are fertilized never attach to the uterus, so never become a fetus. But at what stage does the fetus possess those attributes that make it human? I don't know. To me, late third trimester abortion is wrong cause the fetus could survive outside the womb. If you gotta do it, the first month would be the time to do it.

In cases of rape, the female should be offered the choice of the morning after pill immediately so that pregnancy can be taken off the table. I know some who would be against that. For anyone who feels that even in cases of rape, abortion should not be allowed, who should then be responsible for the baby? You going to force the mother to provide for it for life, give up much of her own life to do so, with the constant reminder of how that baby came to be? I certainly could not do that.

Same for cases where the mother's health is at risk. I don't know about the rest of you, but if my girlfriend was pregnant and was informed that there was a high probability that she would not survive if she carried the baby to term, I sure as hell would not be trying to talk her into going through with the pregnancy.

The other part of the equation, and one that should be considered more, is that of the female. As another poster indicated, if you advocate for no abortion, you basically put the rights of one individual (fetus) over the rights of another (the mother). I find that hard to reconcile in a free society. And what of the father? All too often in these cases the father just up and leaves. That is not right either. If you are to force a woman to have the child, then the man has to step forward and do his share of caring for and supporting the child.

Andrew

[Devils Horse]

Difficult subject, I don't think there are any absolutely right answers. I would be interested to hear several women's views on the subject. After all, they have a much bigger role to play in the whole thing than men. I sometimes get the feeling that if men could get pregnant then you would find contraceptives much easier to come by and an abortion could be obtained as easily as a haircut. Anyway, my own view is a mix of those expressed already. In short: I do not like the idea of abortion as a method of contraception; I recognized that there are times when it is the most reasonable choice (e.g., life of the mother is at risk, rape, fetus is dead and will be stillborn); prefer the idea that it can be done safely; feel that it is a choice that should be made by those involved; and I have no desire to have my thoughts on this imposed on others. If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one and keep the government the hell out of the bedroom/doctor's office. It’s that simple.

To me, part of the problem that there is such a gray area in terms of what constitutes human life. To some, the moment the egg is fertilized, it’s a baby. At the other extreme, it does not reach human baby status until it could exist outside the womb on its own. That is something that science has to be able to answer for us. For example, many eggs that are fertilized never attach to the uterus, so never become a fetus. But at what stage does the fetus possess those attributes that make it human? I don't know. To me, late third trimester abortion is wrong cause the fetus could survive outside the womb. If you gotta do it, the first month would be the time to do it.

In cases of rape, the female should be offered the choice of the morning after pill immediately so that pregnancy can be taken off the table. I know some who would be against that. For anyone who feels that even in cases of rape, abortion should not be allowed, who should then be responsible for the baby? You going to force the mother to provide for it for life, give up much of her own life to do so, with the constant reminder of how that baby came to be? I certainly could not do that.

Same for cases where the mother's health is at risk. I don't know about the rest of you, but if my girlfriend was pregnant and was informed that there was a high probability that she would not survive if she carried the baby to term, I sure as hell would not be trying to talk her into going through with the pregnancy.

The other part of the equation, and one that should be considered more, is that of the female. As another poster indicated, if you advocate for no abortion, you basically put the rights of one individual (fetus) over the rights of another (the mother). I find that hard to reconcile in a free society. And what of the father? All too often in these cases the father just up and leaves. That is not right either. If you are to force a woman to have the child, then the man has to step forward and do his share of caring for and supporting the child.

Andrew

Pretty nice summation of my feelings also, Andrew. Well said.

I usually take a firm stand on issues, but find myself being as another poster said 'wishy washy' on this one.

[jcb]

The other part of the equation, and one that should be considered more, is that of the female. As another poster indicated, if you advocate for no abortion, you basically put the rights of one individual (fetus) over the rights of another (the mother). I find that hard to reconcile in a free society.

This is only true if one believes that the mother indeed has the right to abort her child.

[TrackerMike]

Don is right, they have a special place in Hell waiting for that *******. I don't believe God forgives everything.[/QUOTE]

GOD forgives what is asked forgiveness for. I don't think this guy is capable of being remorsefull enough to ask God for forgiveness, but what isi impossible with men is possible with God.
Thats my take on it.:-)