Where are the Americans

[roadrunner]

Does anybody here believe the lower and middle class are in better shape today that they were before reaganomics?

Does anybody here believe the upper class hasn't gained wealth as compared to the other two?

Does anybody here believe the end result is not directly caused by the idea that if you let the rich make all the money they can they will allow that to "trickle down"?... sure they will but only if you are able to force that trickle down.

Does anybody here believe cutting those taxes did not lead to the debt boondongle we have today, if you do. look at the top tax rates before and after reagan... trickle down was a sham that only benefited the wealthy.

Does anybody remember what Bush1 referred to trickle down as?
31 percent: Top tax rate in 1991
50 percent: Top tax rate in 1986
70 percent: Top tax rate in 1980
91 percent: Top tax rate in 1963

I can assure you the middle class was much better off in the Reagan administration than they are under Obama administration he has destroyed the middle class and has a huge expansion to the lower class. Why do you think his policies were destroyed this last election------because THEY HAVE NOT WORKED AND THEY WILL NOT WORK IT HAS BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER. As far as your trickle down theory that was a label given by the liberals trying to make it look like it id not work and evidently you are one of the ones who drank the kool aid.

[know1]

The fact that you can only get Non-Americans to apply tells me that our biggest problems lie with legal Americans and not with Non-Americans.

I'm sure that won't be a popular opinion, but I think I'd rather have people who want to be here and want to be productive rather than those that don't.

[Hlleonard]

I can assure you the middle class was much better off in the Reagan administration than they are under Obama administration he has destroyed the middle class and has a huge expansion to the lower class. Why do you think his policies were destroyed this last election------because THEY HAVE NOT WORKED AND THEY WILL NOT WORK IT HAS BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER. As far as your trickle down theory that was a label given by the liberals trying to make it look like it id not work and evidently you are one of the ones who drank the kool aid.

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Today, "trickle-down economics" is most closely identified with the economic policies known as "Reaganomics" or laissez-faire. David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory.

[Hlleonard]

The fact that you can only get Non-Americans to apply tells me that our biggest problems lie with legal Americans and not with Non-Americans.

I'm sure that won't be a popular opinion, but I think I'd rather have people who want to be here and want to be productive rather than those that don't.

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the fact that people living stacked up in a trailer or house and willing to work for 20 or 30% less than an american has to have to feed his family says a lot about what businesses are willing to do to cut the throat of the american work force.

[psprowler]

It also says a lot about the worker that is willing to take 30% less and effectively use that money to be able to provide life's necessities to his larger family. Strange how the non American can do that yet the able bodied American cannot. Right or wrong aside.

[MrSplitshot]

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Pay better wages and our economy and our dependence of gov handouts get better

You work at a Tire Store making $12/hour mounting tires. That's all you've got. Let's say you work 40 hours a week, so there is $480 before taxes and you bring home around $400/week, or $1600/mo.

Not exactly easy to pay for all of life's necessities (Shelter, Food, Transportation, Medical) and live comfortably on that, I understand...especially if you are the only bread-winner, are married, have kids. Tough. I'd bet some here will say that it can be done though, with the right budgeting, self control, and perseverance...but I digress.

Let's say we take that $12/hour and make it $24/hour....wow....it just got a little easier to meet your bills. Good day for Johnny Tire Buster....even though research will tell you that the more you make, the more you spend. It's all relative. But again, I digress.

The Tire Store currently charges customers $5 to mount a tire, $50 for an alignment, $15 for an oil change. It's owned by a local businessman who took over the business from his father, he's fighting the big national chains who have enormously more money than him, and has already cut prices to a degree just to compete. He doesn't have much retirement, he's 53 years old, and has no succession plan for his business. Now, just on the one employee in this example, his labor costs have doubled. If he's going to remain in business, he can either:

(a) Cut his staff in half....but probably won't be able to get the work done for customers if he does, so they'll get upset, start giving bad reviews, and going elsewhere.
(b) Raise his prices to offset the $25,000+ additional expense caused by raising wages....but then he can't compete as well with the national chains and his business will fall off.
(c) Just eat all of that additional expense as a direct hit to his bottom line....which isn't really an option....he's already on a shoestring budget trying to survive as a small middle class business owner and keep the doors open. He doesn't live like a king or anything. He's a normal guy.
(d) Some combination of A-B-C.

He's going to do (D).

He'll cut a guy....maybe 1 back in the shop, even though it hurts....he'll raise his prices to the consumer a bit and hope to God nobody complains too much....and he'll eat a little of it in a lowered bottom line, because he's known Johnny Tire Buster back in the shop for 20 years, has seen his kids born, considers him family, and can't bear to let him go unless it's dire straights. He's a businessman, but he also has a big heart. (This is most businessmen in America, unlike what you are lead to believe about Wall Street and greedy business owners.)

The result:
Fewer jobs.
Higher prices to people coming in for goods and services...which cuts back into those higher wages they are earning...and also earns the government some more sales tax revenue too.
Small businesses that fail in favor of larger/national businesses with more cash flow and access to resources.

I'm not saying I know a quicker/better solution, but I'm not buying into Government mandated drastic increases in wages yet.

[Hlleonard]

It also says a lot about the worker that is willing to take 30% less and effectively use that money to be able to provide life's necessities to his larger family. Strange how the non American can do that yet the able bodied American cannot. Right or wrong aside.

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Are you willing to share your home with three or four other families or is that just your opinion of what other people should do?

[psprowler]

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Are you willing to share your home with three or four other families or is that just your opinion of what other people should do?

I would if that was what it took to get by. There's a reason why it's not though. You're never gonna guess what happened to me. I got straight lucky and won the lottery at age 18.

So tell me your daily routine with the five families you share your home with. I'll wait.

[psprowler]

Q summed it up nicely. Spot on. I suspect he knows something about the tire business.....and life in general.

[Hlleonard]

I would if that was what it took to get by. There's a reason why it's not though. You're never gonna guess what happened to me. I got straight lucky and won the lottery at age 18.

So tell me your daily routine with the five families you share your home with. I'll wait.

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You have a good evening.

[waterdog101]

[QUOTE=MrSplitshot;542575]

The Tire Store currently charges customers $5 to mount a tire, $50 for an alignment, $15 for an oil change.[/QUOTE

5 bucks to mount a tire is a really good price, I live about 15 minutes from 3 small towns and one tire store charges me 8 bucks to mount and balance a new tire, and the other 2 towns have tire stores that charge 28 bucks per tire. and they stay covered up with business, I guess people have more money than they do good common sense.
I buy my tires from tirerack.com with free shipping and depending on the brand of tire you buy, you get a 50.00 and up rebate on a set of 4 and get all 4 mounted and balanced for 32 bucks. I'm over 60 years of age and have never paid for an oil change in my life, do it myself.

[Hlleonard]

You work at a Tire Store making $12/hour mounting tires. That's all you've got. Let's say you work 40 hours a week, so there is $480 before taxes and you bring home around $400/week, or $1600/mo.

Not exactly easy to pay for all of life's necessities (Shelter, Food, Transportation, Medical) and live comfortably on that, I understand...especially if you are the only bread-winner, are married, have kids. Tough. I'd bet some here will say that it can be done though, with the right budgeting, self control, and perseverance...but I digress.

Let's say we take that $12/hour and make it $24/hour....wow....it just got a little easier to meet your bills. Good day for Johnny Tire Buster....even though research will tell you that the more you make, the more you spend. It's all relative. But again, I digress.

The Tire Store currently charges customers $5 to mount a tire, $50 for an alignment, $15 for an oil change. It's owned by a local businessman who took over the business from his father, he's fighting the big national chains who have enormously more money than him, and has already cut prices to a degree just to compete. He doesn't have much retirement, he's 53 years old, and has no succession plan for his business. Now, just on the one employee in this example, his labor costs have doubled. If he's going to remain in business, he can either:

(a) Cut his staff in half....but probably won't be able to get the work done for customers if he does, so they'll get upset, start giving bad reviews, and going elsewhere.
(b) Raise his prices to offset the $25,000+ additional expense caused by raising wages....but then he can't compete as well with the national chains and his business will fall off.
(c) Just eat all of that additional expense as a direct hit to his bottom line....which isn't really an option....he's already on a shoestring budget trying to survive as a small middle class business owner and keep the doors open. He doesn't live like a king or anything. He's a normal guy.
(d) Some combination of A-B-C.

He's going to do (D).

He'll cut a guy....maybe 1 back in the shop, even though it hurts....he'll raise his prices to the consumer a bit and hope to God nobody complains too much....and he'll eat a little of it in a lowered bottom line, because he's known Johnny Tire Buster back in the shop for 20 years, has seen his kids born, considers him family, and can't bear to let him go unless it's dire straights. He's a businessman, but he also has a big heart. (This is most businessmen in America, unlike what you are lead to believe about Wall Street and greedy business owners.)

The result:
Fewer jobs.
Higher prices to people coming in for goods and services...which cuts back into those higher wages they are earning...and also earns the government some more sales tax revenue too.
Small businesses that fail in favor of larger/national businesses with more cash flow and access to resources.

I'm not saying I know a quicker/better solution, but I'm not buying into Government mandated drastic increases in wages yet.

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I understand that it is much harder for small businesses to increase their pay scale but if you can only afford to pay food stamp wages then maybe you are part of the problem... not sure why the rest of us should pay part of the support of your employees simply because you are a small business.. If you can't cut it somebody else will... In our little town there must be 4 or 5 businesses mowing yards, here mostly they pay school kids to help them and I don't have a problem with that, school kids aren't having to provide a home and support for a family... I'm sure 1 or 2 businesses can provide those services and be in better shape to pay a better wage if they needed full time employees...