A novel idea

[coombro]

I to am a union worker, and after working 10 hours on the job. I don't have any trouble sleeping. something some of you guys that don't like unions might not know. the union are the ones that set the prevailing wage in ky. if ky ever becomes a right to work state, instead of your scale pay being 25.00 per hour, it will be more like 12.50 per hour. and even if your not a union worker, you would get a big pay cut at your job, because where theres a union, nonunion jobs close by try to pay close to the union scale. the same job I do here in ky, if I did it in the right to work states located south of ky. my pay would be cut in half. I'm proud to be a union worker, because I like getting payed when I work hard.

I am a benefactor of the prevailing wage law. And if you ask me it's a big waste of money. Sure I love making $40 an hr. Yet the money the state pays out to these wages is ridiculous. Also tried the union and I worked to hard to be a union man. Worked at Ford motor during shut downs and my daily assignment was stay awake. Not enough work to keep me occupied for my 12 hr. shift. I'm all for my boss making money if he doesn't he'll be forced to shut down and that's the end of the job. If there's nothing for me to do send me home. I'm not against the unions at all. Yet when I was in I was working for the company and not the union. Most guys I worked with were working for the union and not the company.

[kygorski]

There is the difference between production workers, and trade unions.I told my guys what my superior at the international told me. Your pay check dosn't come from the union, 9if it did, many of these guys would never have been hired!

[Chubminnow]

Non-Union worker here that doesn't care much for unions either. On the other hand however, I wished I would have tried getting into some form of organized labor way back when I was younger, cause that would mean I would be looking at a pension when I retire. As it stands now, all I'm going to have when I retire is social security (what a joke), and what I have managed to save along the way on my own...and the only reason I've saved the amount I have thus far is because I've had good health to allow me to report to work and sense enough to know that I have to live within my means.

Now....despite all my dislike for the unions...I find myself telling one of my step-sons that I don't blame him at all for being a union man. He works in construction (union), but now that he's in his 30's he's re-thinking his plan so now he's trying to get on at Ford. He has an inside connection so I'd say his chances of getting hired might be slightly better than joe-shmo off the street, but still no gaurantee. Being in his 30's he's still young enough that he could give Ford a good 30 years and he could earn a decent pension. He's been married 13 years, has a ten year old boy and a 2 year old boy that he loves dearly. I wish him all the luck in the world and hope he gets on at Ford.

With all this being said...I'm still 100% AGAINST unions! And just to clear things up to what DJD wrote, he did not say ALL blacks nor ALL union people were lazy, for me personally I took what he wrote with a grain of salt, he was painting broad strokes with a half-loaded brush because the cold hard truth IS....There are plenty of people in the union who are of the mind-set that they have senority so their job is protected regardless of the effort they put forth. Likewise there are plenty of blacks who think their job is protected just because of the color of their skin ("you-can't-fire-me-easily" for fear of discrimination lawsuit train of thought). One the other hand there are plenty of good solid men that are black and/or union workers. The thing that gets me more than anything are the guys who are union members who spout off about how great the union and their members are....truth be known they ain't any better than anyone else. The only difference is they are large in number, have a loud voice and every now and then they cry loudly because they need more milk money. You show me a union electrician who can install the most beautifully run conduit raceways and I can show you a non-union electrican who can do the same.

I'm an American, non-union working white-boy and the ONLY thing that keeps a paycheck coming in for me is the work I produce. There are plenty of others ready to take over my position at the drop of a hat, in fact there are a plenty of others not only willing to take over my position but they are more qualified than me as far as credentials are concerned...there's no safety net to protect me from these wolves except for my own work ethic. So you better believe it when I say I give a SOLID 8 hours per day or more. As for a 40 hour week? HA!!! What is that? I'll tell you what it is....it's a thing of the past. It's been forever and a day since I gave 40 hours or less per week, in fact during the last 28 to 30 years 40-hour weeks have been few and far between.

[coombro]

Very well put there Chubminnow I feel we're in the same boat. The way things are looking though it won't be long before the white man will be the minority. Not to be rsicest thats the way it heading.

[waterdog101]

I am a benefactor of the prevailing wage law. And if you ask me it's a big waste of money. Sure I love making $40 an hr. Yet the money the state pays out to these wages is ridiculous. Also tried the union and I worked to hard to be a union man. Worked at Ford motor during shut downs and my daily assignment was stay awake. Not enough work to keep me occupied for my 12 hr. shift. I'm all for my boss making money if he doesn't he'll be forced to shut down and that's the end of the job. If there's nothing for me to do send me home. I'm not against the unions at all. Yet when I was in I was working for the company and not the union. Most guys I worked with were working for the union and not the company.

.......I don't know about other union jobs, but the union jobs that I've worked on. thats exactly what would happen if you didn't have anything to do, you will be sent home. if your machine breaks down, and it takes say 2 hours to fix it, you go home until the next day. and if you are caught sleeping on the job, you go home, I'm not sure how that would play out if sent home or fired. our type of work everyone is to busy working to sleep. and missing work, 3 days in a month without a dr. excues, your fired, and seniority changes from job to job, no one keeps top seniority, the next job your on you may be on the bottom, and your, drug tested before you start work, and they give, suprise drug test for everyone on the job, if you fail it, your fired. and I have seen a lot fired, for using drugs. I've worked nonunion jobs, when I was a younger man. and they tend to be a family type job. the superintendents like to hire ther brothers, uncles, sons, and nephews, or friends, or friends friend. and the pay isen't a set scale, one guy may make 2.00 per hour more than the next guy doing the same job. I've been there. in heave rain, we don't work. the union job pays 2 hours show up time. if your rained out, the 2 hours covers your expence for getting out of bed and driving 1 and 1/2 hours toget to work and using 20 bucks in gas. the non union jobs don't care about your expence, they just say no work today, see you tomorrow. the only safety net we have is hard work. so being a union worker makes my life a little better than it was, when I worked nonunion. do any of you guys that don't like unions, have any mothers, sisters, or brothers that work for walmart. if so ask them how they are treated at work by the nonunion supervision. and you may have worked there yourself, if so you know what im talking about.

[DJD]

I am a benefactor of the prevailing wage law. And if you ask me it's a big waste of money. Sure I love making $40 an hr. Yet the money the state pays out to these wages is ridiculous. Also tried the union and I worked to hard to be a union man. Worked at Ford motor during shut downs and my daily assignment was stay awake. Not enough work to keep me occupied for my 12 hr. shift. I'm all for my boss making money if he doesn't he'll be forced to shut down and that's the end of the job. If there's nothing for me to do send me home. I'm not against the unions at all. Yet when I was in I was working for the company and not the union. Most guys I worked with were working for the union and not the company.

I hear ya man...here is another example of what makes me shake my head in disgust...we are bidding a school job in a few weeks. Guess what the prevailing wage is for an electrician in that county? $51.83! Really, how is this reality? Imagine how that job is gonna go as it tries to close out and get ready to open. I can bet some guys will milk that wage!!!

So because of the Unions getting this prevailing wage into law take a look at this worker who was maybe making $45-55k a year with his experience and license and he gets on a job for a year or more making $107, 806 a year. Anyone wonder why the state has a hard time finding money for other things? This is just for electricians.

On this job....(figures are straight out of the bid documents) A laborer makes $20.62 an hour, Ironworker $44.31, Cement Masons $34.31 and on and on. Years ago the schools were built, people made money and all was well except for the spoiled Unions. They couldn't bid these jobs since they paid so much to the men so they scratched the back of politicians and got this law passed to help them compete. Well it hasn't worked very well since they still get almost nothing in the public educational state funded projects. Now, what happens is the private sector is charging the state more for the projects and they are getting tossed together... because you can lose your butt on these jobs if they run over on labor.

I visit these jobs and trust me there is alot of "oh well i'm getting my "X" amount of money I don't care how long it takes" attitude going on. Human nature is what it is.

[coombro]

I hear ya man...here is another example of what makes me shake my head in disgust...we are bidding a school job in a few weeks. Guess what the prevailing wage is for an electrician in that county? $51.83! Really, how is this reality? Imagine how that job is gonna go as it tries to close out and get ready to open. I can bet some guys will milk that wage!!!

So because of the Unions getting this prevailing wage into law take a look at this worker who was maybe making $45-55k a year with his experience and license and he gets on a job for a year or more making $107, 806 a year. Anyone wonder why the state has a hard time finding money for other things? This is just for electricians.

On this job....(figures are straight out of the bid documents) A laborer makes $20.62 an hour, Ironworker $44.31, Cement Masons $34.31 and on and on. Years ago the schools were built, people made money and all was well except for the spoiled Unions. They couldn't bid these jobs since they paid so much to the men so they scratched the back of politicians and got this law passed to help them compete. Well it hasn't worked very well since they still get almost nothing in the public educational state funded projects. Now, what happens is the private sector is charging the state more for the projects and they are getting tossed together... because you can lose your butt on these jobs if they run over on labor.

I visit these jobs and trust me there is alot of "oh well i'm getting my "X" amount of money I don't care how long it takes" attitude going on. Human nature is what it is.

Amen DJD and the quality of work is no better be it a union man or not! I being an electrician love the wages and as a foreman expect top quality work out of knowledgeable electricians. That is getting hard to find. Even at those wages. State isn't getting what it's suppose to with the wages. As you said cost are cut somewhere and it's in the overall quality of the job.