A novel idea

[GeoFisher]

Gubment? Where did this come from? And no white folks are on welfare.Like I said earlier, ifmccain had won, there would be NO T party. Its only because someone other than a white old man won the election. Yet these same guys that can't stand to bear a black president , will go bananas over a 7 ft semi literate knuckle dragging basket ball player.If I got this right there might be one black T party member, elected from the most affluent district in florida.

Race MY FRIEND.......has nothing to do with it. I'm not a big McCain supporter either, but I'd take him over the president any day. My biggest issue is Obamas friends, his leadership, his cabinet, hes lack of experience, and right now.....his ARROGANCE.

Later,

Geo

[coombro]

I to am a union worker, and after working 10 hours on the job. I don't have any trouble sleeping. something some of you guys that don't like unions might not know. the union are the ones that set the prevailing wage in ky. if ky ever becomes a right to work state, instead of your scale pay being 25.00 per hour, it will be more like 12.50 per hour. and even if your not a union worker, you would get a big pay cut at your job, because where theres a union, nonunion jobs close by try to pay close to the union scale. the same job I do here in ky, if I did it in the right to work states located south of ky. my pay would be cut in half. I'm proud to be a union worker, because I like getting payed when I work hard.

I am a benefactor of the prevailing wage law. And if you ask me it's a big waste of money. Sure I love making $40 an hr. Yet the money the state pays out to these wages is ridiculous. Also tried the union and I worked to hard to be a union man. Worked at Ford motor during shut downs and my daily assignment was stay awake. Not enough work to keep me occupied for my 12 hr. shift. I'm all for my boss making money if he doesn't he'll be forced to shut down and that's the end of the job. If there's nothing for me to do send me home. I'm not against the unions at all. Yet when I was in I was working for the company and not the union. Most guys I worked with were working for the union and not the company.

[kygorski]

There is the difference between production workers, and trade unions.I told my guys what my superior at the international told me. Your pay check dosn't come from the union, 9if it did, many of these guys would never have been hired!

[Chubminnow]

Non-Union worker here that doesn't care much for unions either. On the other hand however, I wished I would have tried getting into some form of organized labor way back when I was younger, cause that would mean I would be looking at a pension when I retire. As it stands now, all I'm going to have when I retire is social security (what a joke), and what I have managed to save along the way on my own...and the only reason I've saved the amount I have thus far is because I've had good health to allow me to report to work and sense enough to know that I have to live within my means.

Now....despite all my dislike for the unions...I find myself telling one of my step-sons that I don't blame him at all for being a union man. He works in construction (union), but now that he's in his 30's he's re-thinking his plan so now he's trying to get on at Ford. He has an inside connection so I'd say his chances of getting hired might be slightly better than joe-shmo off the street, but still no gaurantee. Being in his 30's he's still young enough that he could give Ford a good 30 years and he could earn a decent pension. He's been married 13 years, has a ten year old boy and a 2 year old boy that he loves dearly. I wish him all the luck in the world and hope he gets on at Ford.

With all this being said...I'm still 100% AGAINST unions! And just to clear things up to what DJD wrote, he did not say ALL blacks nor ALL union people were lazy, for me personally I took what he wrote with a grain of salt, he was painting broad strokes with a half-loaded brush because the cold hard truth IS....There are plenty of people in the union who are of the mind-set that they have senority so their job is protected regardless of the effort they put forth. Likewise there are plenty of blacks who think their job is protected just because of the color of their skin ("you-can't-fire-me-easily" for fear of discrimination lawsuit train of thought). One the other hand there are plenty of good solid men that are black and/or union workers. The thing that gets me more than anything are the guys who are union members who spout off about how great the union and their members are....truth be known they ain't any better than anyone else. The only difference is they are large in number, have a loud voice and every now and then they cry loudly because they need more milk money. You show me a union electrician who can install the most beautifully run conduit raceways and I can show you a non-union electrican who can do the same.

I'm an American, non-union working white-boy and the ONLY thing that keeps a paycheck coming in for me is the work I produce. There are plenty of others ready to take over my position at the drop of a hat, in fact there are a plenty of others not only willing to take over my position but they are more qualified than me as far as credentials are concerned...there's no safety net to protect me from these wolves except for my own work ethic. So you better believe it when I say I give a SOLID 8 hours per day or more. As for a 40 hour week? HA!!! What is that? I'll tell you what it is....it's a thing of the past. It's been forever and a day since I gave 40 hours or less per week, in fact during the last 28 to 30 years 40-hour weeks have been few and far between.

[coombro]

Very well put there Chubminnow I feel we're in the same boat. The way things are looking though it won't be long before the white man will be the minority. Not to be rsicest thats the way it heading.

[waterdog101]

I am a benefactor of the prevailing wage law. And if you ask me it's a big waste of money. Sure I love making $40 an hr. Yet the money the state pays out to these wages is ridiculous. Also tried the union and I worked to hard to be a union man. Worked at Ford motor during shut downs and my daily assignment was stay awake. Not enough work to keep me occupied for my 12 hr. shift. I'm all for my boss making money if he doesn't he'll be forced to shut down and that's the end of the job. If there's nothing for me to do send me home. I'm not against the unions at all. Yet when I was in I was working for the company and not the union. Most guys I worked with were working for the union and not the company.

.......I don't know about other union jobs, but the union jobs that I've worked on. thats exactly what would happen if you didn't have anything to do, you will be sent home. if your machine breaks down, and it takes say 2 hours to fix it, you go home until the next day. and if you are caught sleeping on the job, you go home, I'm not sure how that would play out if sent home or fired. our type of work everyone is to busy working to sleep. and missing work, 3 days in a month without a dr. excues, your fired, and seniority changes from job to job, no one keeps top seniority, the next job your on you may be on the bottom, and your, drug tested before you start work, and they give, suprise drug test for everyone on the job, if you fail it, your fired. and I have seen a lot fired, for using drugs. I've worked nonunion jobs, when I was a younger man. and they tend to be a family type job. the superintendents like to hire ther brothers, uncles, sons, and nephews, or friends, or friends friend. and the pay isen't a set scale, one guy may make 2.00 per hour more than the next guy doing the same job. I've been there. in heave rain, we don't work. the union job pays 2 hours show up time. if your rained out, the 2 hours covers your expence for getting out of bed and driving 1 and 1/2 hours toget to work and using 20 bucks in gas. the non union jobs don't care about your expence, they just say no work today, see you tomorrow. the only safety net we have is hard work. so being a union worker makes my life a little better than it was, when I worked nonunion. do any of you guys that don't like unions, have any mothers, sisters, or brothers that work for walmart. if so ask them how they are treated at work by the nonunion supervision. and you may have worked there yourself, if so you know what im talking about.

[bassin_bug]

LOL purely made a little joke on the Union comment and I thought it would be taken with a little humor. I know many good folks in Unions and I know bad ones. Same goes for private sector jobs.

For the record and all joking aside...I don't care for Unions, I never hid that from anyone on this site. I never worked around steel workers but have around many other unions and yes most are trade unions.

Give me a few hours around some of them and I'll hear or see waste totally based on the fact they are in a Union. Sorry if you don't like it but I base my opinion on what I have experienced and experience almost daily in the Educational Bid market in Kentucky.

No hard feelings KYGorski.....we just differ in opinions on this.

I understand your point and totally agree. If you want to read about a financial nightmare, read about the Oakland Bay Bridge repair and cost overrun. It is into the BILLIONS of dollars and already about 5 years behind schedule. It's the section that fell into the Bay during the 1989 earthquake and California is trying to rebuild it. My husband was offered a contract last week if he would come and help them out and he told them that he wasn't interested. The guy that called him said they can't hire enough workers to get the job done and managers are leaving. The bridge will be a 10-lane interstate over about 15 miles of water. It's union and obviously full of slackers. I didn't say that to suggest that all union workers are slackers; just a lot of those on the Oakland Bay Bridge construction project.

[elnutsmalljaws]

Unions, Non-Unions, that is the question

Speaking from the Management point of view with 20 years on the Management side and a father that was a Union Steward for Teamsters for 20 years, I have seen and heard both sides. Personally, Unions were only created because Management MIS MANAGED the company in the first place. I was given the reins of a $120 Million dollar a year manufacturing plant and inherited a Steel Workers Union contract several years ago. The only way I took the job was because of the "Management Rights" paragraph on page 3 of the union contract. Unions sit down with management and they come to an agreement on a "work contract" that is accepted by both parties. Both parties agree that this is fair for both sides and each side can live with the agreement. All this is, is a bunch of pages that lawyers and such get paid a heck of a lot more than the managers and hourly workers in the facility that state how the facility should run in the first place. Yes I had a contract and yes I knew the contract but how many times did I have to run to the contract to see if I was "politically correct" VERY FEW. I managed my 110 person workforce by a few simple rules. SAFETY, QUALITY, EFFICIENCY and HOUSEKEEPING. These never changed in order and all 4 were done by every shift every day of every month of every year. Every person knew when they were driving to work that day what the expectations were, what was going to happen if you met or exceeded those expectations, what was going to happen if you did not meet those expectation and that was it. I dont care if you are man, woman, child, black, blue, purple, white, mexican, chinese, japanese, Nepalese, Arabian, one legged, one armed, one eyed, no hair, red hair, pink hair = THE EXPECTATIONS WERE THE SAME FOR ME AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON WORKING IN THE BUILDING UNION OR OTHERWISE. If all companies managed and all workforces worked to where an honest days work was performed and rewarded with an honest days wage and EVERYONE WAS PRAISED AND DISCIPLINED EQUALLY, then to heck with Unions and their contracts. But as long as companies and management and the workforce take advantage of each other then unions will continue, union dues will be paid and lawyers will keep getting richer writing and negotiating those pages

Managing people is one of the EASIEST jobs to do. If you do the proper hiring procedures with the proper references and background checks then pretty much out of 10 people you hire you will get 2 Superstars, 2 pieces of garbage that no matter what you do they will still be pieces of garbage and 6 that will meet what is expected of them to keep their jobs. Managers job is to keep the Superstars being Superstars, do the best job of teaching and training the 2 pieces of garbage and try to get them to meet expectations - IF NOT THEN FIRE THEIR HAPPY BUTTS, and try to get the other 6 to move closer and closer to Superstar Status. Don't hire someone to cover some other sorry worker and don't expect a Superstar to pick up the slack for a sorry worker. Do everything EVERYDAY to improve your People, Policies and Practises and NEVER GET COMPLACENT in thinking your as good as your going to get. Guaranteed, if some competitor builds a facility across the street from you and starts making the same thing you do, if he tries to improve EVERYDAY and reaches for PERFECTION EVERYDAY, eventually he will equal and pass you in today's world. I don't care if you have a 50 year headstart, he will eventually be a better company with a better name and you will be sitting on your complacent behind trying to wonder what in the world happened and why is HE expanding and you are downsizing

[GeoFisher]

Very nice reply Woody..........

I think you hit the nail on the head. You ideas are pretty much my ideas. MANAGE, and do it right and you will not have issues.

When you do, react quickly, protect morale, and GET on with it.

People today look at a job, especially a union job as a privilege, instead of an opportunity.

If people would DO their job, excel at THEIR JOB and look for a better opportunity, when it is provided, the world would be a better place.

Instead UNIONS try to protect everyone, including the bad seeds.....

I'd not be nearly as hard on the UNIONS if their pay and contracts were based directly on performance. Increase net profits for the company by 10 percent.....SHARE in that wealth. Cause net profits to fall 10 percent.....SHARE that pain also.

In my job, I'm DIRECTLY responsible for my raise. When things are tight.....like now, and the past 3-4 years, raises are few and far between. That is expected as the health care business is in shambles. Now, my company is in pretty profitable right now, that is only because of significant CUTS elsewhere, including my health insurance. I don't bitch too much about that, I actually think the model we use is WHAT the entire country should use.....

At least I have a job, and my company is on TOP of the health care debate, and is working on other interesting ideas to sustain profits, and growth.

The world will be very interesting in a few years.......TO say the least.

Later,

Geo

[kydonky]

Really stupid thread here to say the least. Do nothing on your job for three weeks?

Union or no union just stupid. All you union haters are obviously not union workers. Many are very dirty arduous occupations. Yea Yea Yea everybody has done a dirty arduous job,but not many do them for 30 years.

All the union workers do not appreciate the volatility and pressure of working without contract or security. Having to prove your value daily and threats of being undercut constantly.

Neither of those understand the pressure of keeping the business afoat and meeting the bottom line running your own business.

Best advise I can give is don't judge untill you walk a mile (or two). In the mean time learn to appreciate what the diverse benifits we bring to the table as a whole.

Time we stop attacking our neighbors (union member, gas station owner, corporate manager). I think we could get a lot more done.

Old saying? The grass is always greener. Right now I don't think any of us have it easy.

I could go on but I think you get my drift.

Stupid thread.

[kydonky]

I understand your point and totally agree. If you want to read about a financial nightmare, read about the Oakland Bay Bridge repair and cost overrun. It is into the BILLIONS of dollars and already about 5 years behind schedule. It's the section that fell into the Bay during the 1989 earthquake and California is trying to rebuild it. My husband was offered a contract last week if he would come and help them out and he told them that he wasn't interested. The guy that called him said they can't hire enough workers to get the job done and managers are leaving. The bridge will be a 10-lane interstate over about 15 miles of water. It's union and obviously full of slackers. I didn't say that to suggest that all union workers are slackers; just a lot of those on the Oakland Bay Bridge construction project.

More propaganda. Sure union ran over costs $$$$$$$$? Had nothing to do with any management decisions, bonuses, kickbacks from suppliers, executive salaries. The whole overrun can be atributed to that one guy taking a smoke break by the barrel. He was obviously union.

[bassin_bug]

I didn't mean to suggest that my husband's contract is a union contract. It's not, it's a legal contract between him, the client, and the large company he works for. The company is a multi-billion dollar company that averages around $10 billion in profits every year. He would have easy cruising if there were only about 150-200 employees but it's more like 1,200-1,500. He has never had a union member wave their union membership card in his face or refuse to cooperate with him. His salary is not based on the prevailing union wage because he (1) is not a union member (2) doesn't work in trades and labor, but in non-union management. He is salaried and it is based on his education and number of years of experience which, btw, is rather extensive.

Someone mentioned having not worked a 40 hour week in a while; that has to be tough and very frustrating. There are times when my husband works 12 hours/day-7 days/week....for a month or more at a time. If people are working, he is in his office during the day from 6:30 a.m. until.... At night a cell phone, the house phone, and a pager are on the nightstand beside the bed in case of emergency. In other words, he is always on call.