Mitch Daniels takes on LABOR

[Hlleonard]

I'm like Don in that my paycheck comes from the construction industry...been in this business for 31 years. And I say DOWN with the Unions!

Everyone agree's with this statement except of course those who are in a Union. All that strong arming crap is just that...CRAP!! I'm not saying a guy on an assembly line doesn't work hard, he probably does, day in, day out, going to the same stinking line everyday, lights blinking, obnoxious sounds, life on the assembly line probably stinks...but not EVERY guy on the line works hard so why should EVERY guy on the line get the same pay? Why should job security be based on how many years experience a guy has verses how good he is at the work he does. Total number of years experience does not always equate to excellent work produced so why pay Union Platinum Star-A top pay while also paying the Union Bench Warmer the equal amount? Same goes for teachers, some are excellent, some should not be teaching but yet the union treats them equally.

Why should people get a kickback from the Union when they're laid off so while they're laid off they bring home almost as much pay as when they're working? And why should I have to pay extra dollars to support my american brother's job AND help finance his pension by buying his product? It seems to me that I'm already doing my part by buying his american made product, this keeps him employed, but I sure as heck should NOT be charged an extra dollar to help fund his pension. If he wants a nest egg come retirment day then let him save it on his own. No one helps fund my pension...oops...I forgot...I don't have a pension plan because I'm not in a union.

To heck with Unions! Don't want'em, don't need'em, they are aiding in the down fall of this country!

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country ...If you want to live in the country that Rush Limbaugh would like to build then look at the middle eastern countries, they have various names and the folks at the top of the heap wash their hands in gold plated wash basins and drive gold plated BMW's while the people on the bottom end of the scale are trying to live on two biscuits a day ...Let the unions totally collapse and your head will spin at how fast the pay scale will be cut in half in plants like toyota where some people point out as a great place to work where unions aren't needed, The UAW in other auto plants are why those people have a decent job whether or not they are willing to admit it.

[DJD]

You are talking to def ears here. They think a rich man make 4.50 an hour but bitch and moan about any tax we pay. They will support a trillion dollar war but slam a person disabled on the draw. Go figure.

Actually you have shown that you support anything the old Dem controlled Congress did and Obamy did as always right. So you support trillions of debt by them and every new tax possible huh? Everyone in this country deserves to be middle class? You can just sukk off the gubment teet forever? The recent elections proves your a minority in your thinking. The true middle class is waking up and finally flexing their muscles and much to your dismay Sarah Palin had alot to do with it. Yep I tossed that name out just for you.... Politicians love blind dedication to their ideals so I'm sure your on their A list.

Myself like many others on here can have varied opinions that don't fall in line with how their party of choice preaches. I'm an independant (registered Repub) with Conservative beliefs. If this state had a better system of allowing Indy's to vote I would have stayed Indy. I'm not 100% on board with what the GOP has done in the past and the same goes for the Dems.

Every american should question an increase in taxes. Why not? Thats the american way is it not? We have a freedom of choice and for the most part we can say what we want in this country. We should question why we are in debt up to our ears, we should question why this POTUS has done what he has done while in office. To this day folks still act as if George Bush ruined this country and yet the POTUS and his old Congress has done more financial damage then GW but BO gets a pass from liberal koolaid drinkers. Go figure...

As far as the war goes.... How many dates and timelines to withdraw troops or end the war did the american people hear from BO duing his campaign? Remember how he would get the crowds fired up spewing that garbage? How many have stayed true? How many dates have passed? He promised the world to us and delivered what? So does that now mean the Liberals support the war? We are still there...either he doesn't know what he is talking about or he is full of it. After all the POTUS supports the wars, the old Dem controlled congress supported it so that means you support it?? Right??

No deaf ears here Parker....just folks that want answers and if that means we have to bounce ideas off others so be it. Take note you might learn something just take your hands off your ears and open your eyes. I actually like hearing the views of the left...I don't always agree but I'm smart enough to know there other views out there.

[Devils Horse]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country ...If you want to live in the country that Rush Limbaugh would like to build then look at the middle eastern countries, they have various names and the folks at the top of the heap wash their hands in gold plated wash basins and drive gold plated BMW's while the people on the bottom end of the scale are trying to live on two biscuits a day ...Let the unions totally collapse and your head will spin at how fast the pay scale will be cut in half in plants like toyota where some people point out as a great place to work where unions aren't needed, The UAW in other auto plants are why those people have a decent job whether or not they are willing to admit it.

Comparing any middle east country to the US system is just plain crazy talk. What's wrong with an America that lives by our constitution?

I have no real problem with Unions as long as workers have a choice about whether to join. The problem is there are entire states where if you want to work there you HAVE to join a union. Slice it any way you want, that's just plain wrong.

Years ago I lived in Dayton, Ohio, and I had a neighbor who worked for one of the auto industry companies. The company was 100% union, you work there, you pay union dues. He made more money than me and had much better benefits despite my education and experience. By my estimation his total compensation including benefits was well over 100k for so called unskilled labor. This was in the late 80's, and Dayton had several such companies.

He told me stories of how the shop stewards controlled the work flow and limited productivity. More than once they privately reprimanded him for working too hard and getting outside the union's production formula. He also said you could get in more trouble for over-producing than slacking. The guy said it was next to impossible to lose his job for any reason unless the union wanted to get rid of you.

There are virtually none of those auto industry companies still in business in Dayton now.

[Devils Horse]

Actually you have shown that you support anything the old Dem controlled Congress did and Obamy did as always right. So you support trillions of debt by them and every new tax possible huh? Everyone in this country deserves to be middle class? You can just sukk off the gubment teet forever? The recent elections proves your a minority in your thinking. The true middle class is waking up and finally flexing their muscles and much to your dismay Sarah Palin had alot to do with it. Yep I tossed that name out just for you.... Politicians love blind dedication to their ideals so I'm sure your on their A list.

Myself like many others on here can have varied opinions that don't fall in line with how their party of choice preaches. I'm an independant (registered Repub) with Conservative beliefs. If this state had a better system of allowing Indy's to vote I would have stayed Indy. I'm not 100% on board with what the GOP has done in the past and the same goes for the Dems.

Every american should question an increase in taxes. Why not? Thats the american way is it not? We have a freedom of choice and for the most part we can say what we want in this country. We should question why we are in debt up to our ears, we should question why this POTUS has done what he has done while in office. To this day folks still act as if George Bush ruined this country and yet the POTUS and his old Congress has done more financial damage then GW but BO gets a pass from liberal koolaid drinkers. Go figure...

As far as the war goes.... How many dates and timelines to withdraw troops or end the war did the american people hear from BO duing his campaign? Remember how he would get the crowds fired up spewing that garbage? How many have stayed true? How many dates have passed? He promised the world to us and delivered what? So does that now mean the Liberals support the war? We are still there...either he doesn't know what he is talking about or he is full of it. After all the POTUS supports the wars, the old Dem controlled congress supported it so that means you support it?? Right??

No deaf ears here Parker....just folks that want answers and if that means we have to bounce ideas off others so be it. Take note you might learn something just take your hands off your ears and open your eyes. I actually like hearing the views of the left...I don't always agree but I'm smart enough to know there other views out there.

You nailed it Don.

[kygorski]

DJD ever work high iron? would you trust just anyone operating a tower crane? Would you let a new guy plan and build a 20 story elevator shaft? Some unions have apprentace programs a worker must pass to be a certified journey man. I saw new houses being built in birmingham, that 5 yrs later were almost condemed, BillyBob construction, left sewer lines loosly connected, Atlanta subdivision, used the cheap schedule plactic pipe for sewage, 4 yra later the whole subdivision was socked with the cost of replacing it, BiilBob construction, and his crew Juan, Pedro, hesus, all gone. Hate unions, what is the AMA, The bar association? Get a bunch of yahoos putting up a 5 story wall, and not checking plumb lines, but hey they are only making 5 bucks an hour. When I got out of the army, worked with american bridge, but it was almost seasonal work, building missle silos out west, no yahoos needed to apply.you talk about constructiion, do you hire cheap or competent contractors?Good contractors have jourymen,who know and take pride in their work.I worked iron one year, and frankly it scared the s--t out of me, so went into industry, chemicals to be exact, and retired as a hydrogen plant tech.Not a union job then.

[GeoFisher]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country ...If you want to live in the country that Rush Limbaugh would like to build then look at the middle eastern countries, they have various names and the folks at the top of the heap wash their hands in gold plated wash basins and drive gold plated BMW's while the people on the bottom end of the scale are trying to live on two biscuits a day ...Let the unions totally collapse and your head will spin at how fast the pay scale will be cut in half in plants like toyota where some people point out as a great place to work where unions aren't needed, The UAW in other auto plants are why those people have a decent job whether or not they are willing to admit it.

GOD........I love it.......you blame the problems of middle eastern countries on capitalism?? You my friend need to go back to school and get some more of that UNION EDUCATION.........I mean REALLY.

Lets see............MOST of the problems over there are due to DICTATORSHIPS........and when DICTATORS run countries, bad things happen.

[Hlleonard]

GOD........I love it.......you blame the problems of middle eastern countries on capitalism?? You my friend need to go back to school and get some more of that UNION EDUCATION.........I mean REALLY.

Lets see............MOST of the problems over there are due to DICTATORSHIPS........and when DICTATORS run countries, bad things happen.

When the top half of the financial population (regardless of who they are) starts pushing the bottom half of the financial population to being deprived of a decent living then bad things happen ...This country is nowhere near what is happening in the middle east but we are a good bit closer than we were 25 years ago, Anybody that thinks that can't happen here if the trend continues into the future is sticking his head in the sand ...One way to turn it around is pay the people who work for you a decent wage so he can buy the things that he works to produce ...The only reason we have the illegals here is because business owners can hire them for half what an American citizen needs to stay off the welfare system so they choose to do that to increase their income with no regard for what it is doing to this country.

[DJD]

DJD ever work high iron? would you trust just anyone operating a tower crane? Would you let a new guy plan and build a 20 story elevator shaft? Some unions have apprentace programs a worker must pass to be a certified journey man. I saw new houses being built in birmingham, that 5 yrs later were almost condemed, BillyBob construction, left sewer lines loosly connected, Atlanta subdivision, used the cheap schedule plactic pipe for sewage, 4 yra later the whole subdivision was socked with the cost of replacing it, BiilBob construction, and his crew Juan, Pedro, hesus, all gone. Hate unions, what is the AMA, The bar association? Get a bunch of yahoos putting up a 5 story wall, and not checking plumb lines, but hey they are only making 5 bucks an hour. When I got out of the army, worked with american bridge, but it was almost seasonal work, building missle silos out west, no yahoos needed to apply.you talk about constructiion, do you hire cheap or competent contractors?Good contractors have jourymen,who know and take pride in their work.I worked iron one year, and frankly it scared the s--t out of me, so went into industry, chemicals to be exact, and retired as a hydrogen plant tech.Not a union job then.

No Sir I have not worked high iron...they can have it! That takes taters the size of uhhh taters!
We work with Union contractors day in and day out and I'm speaking about Electrical and Mechanical Unions that I see in my line of work. Naturally, the folks I work with are awesome and my opinion has nothing to do with their character or personal beliefs.

I do get to hear the "Union" side of the arguments of why they can't seem to compete unless they cut their prices to the bone. They are bound to pay their guys a certain rate which is why that "Prevailing Wage" law went into effect. The hopes were that if we paid our guys that high wage mandated by area or county then we would all be on level playing ground. What noone considered is that non union owners (who are directly responsible for the mans pay and makes decisions daily on how to keep the doors open) worked out doing more work without having 10 journeymen on each job so they could pay a supervisor his proper rate and pay the non-licensed guys they prevailing wages. When they get licensed and earn their way then it's their turn to get paid for their committment to their trade.

The jobs the union contractors get are usually very large (Hospitals, UK, Toyota) that demand a huge amount of labor in a short amount of time. Smaller non union companies can't compete with that and by smaller I'm even talking 50-70 men not being enough. The non union folks still have apprentice programs to become licensed journymen or master electricians and have their continuing education classes as required by KECA/codes. So the quality is the same with good and bad in each.

In the trade I'm in and the trades I deal with there are little to no illegals since the education required usually weeds them out especially with background checks/security clearances/drug tests for specific gubment jobs. I know for sure that trades that only require a strong back and ability to work in the trenches will attract the lower educated or hard on their luck folks. Thats just a fact of life and we need people in all pay grades. Heck most of us started the same way and decided to better educate ourselves or our parents pushed us.

I guess what I am living proof of is that hard work and not being in a union and working for small companies that support 20 or more employees pays the bills and if your good at what you do a person can do very well. No union involved at all. The private sector is where it's at in my eyes. I don't have the security blanket that unions do. My buddy who works at UPS is a proud union member. Great for him and he was around when UPS went on strike in the 90's (i think) and it was rough. He made enemies with friends who crossed the picket lines because they had to work to support their families and it tore alot of people apart. I just disagree with that mentailty. Isn't getting paid 50-100K a year driving package trucks and tractor trailers enough? What skill do they have? Walk fast? Healthy backs? Organizational skills? I just don't see it ......

[Chubminnow]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country.

I agree with half of what you wrote....Greed is the downfall for sure. Look at the big Union Leaders trying to hang the moon for the common man on the line or out in the field, just because he's a union man.

Yep....it's all about Greed!

[Chubminnow]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country.

I guess I'll keep on supporting the U.A.W. by driving Chevrolets, always have and always will....but man, having to pay for all those U.A.W. employee benefit packages that makes their products above and beyond what they're really worth is about to break my back!

[billm_usa1]

Mitch Daniels takes on LABOR ?
I'm not sure where you got this or why you have attributed every one of these personally to Mitch Daniels beliefs. Everything listed are items proposed by the different legislative members. Daniels is on record that we have higher priorities to address during this spring's legislative session.

The issue of township government is really high on exactly what a township is supposed to provide vs the cities and counties. Poor relief was the major responsibility of the township but many have been turned into family businesses.

[ukkid]

DJD ever work high iron? would you trust just anyone operating a tower crane? Would you let a new guy plan and build a 20 story elevator shaft? Some unions have apprentace programs a worker must pass to be a certified journey man. I saw new houses being built in birmingham, that 5 yrs later were almost condemed, BillyBob construction, left sewer lines loosly connected, Atlanta subdivision, used the cheap schedule plactic pipe for sewage, 4 yra later the whole subdivision was socked with the cost of replacing it, BiilBob construction, and his crew Juan, Pedro, hesus, all gone. Hate unions, what is the AMA, The bar association? Get a bunch of yahoos putting up a 5 story wall, and not checking plumb lines, but hey they are only making 5 bucks an hour. When I got out of the army, worked with american bridge, but it was almost seasonal work, building missle silos out west, no yahoos needed to apply.you talk about constructiion, do you hire cheap or competent contractors?Good contractors have jourymen,who know and take pride in their work.I worked iron one year, and frankly it scared the s--t out of me, so went into industry, chemicals to be exact, and retired as a hydrogen plant tech.Not a union job then.

Right on brother, these guys have no clue what construction workers lives are about...dealing with nasty weather and hard dangerous work...construction workers should be well paid and UNIONIZED....right wingers want to give the billionaires tax breaks and then screw the workin man..same old sh#@# from the Reagan days...